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AE3007H1 on "S&W M&P VTAC???"

AE3007H1 — Sun, 01 Jan 2012 17:52:20 +0000

Thank you! I have removed the rear laser on my M&P and went back with a factory rear with a XS tritium front (not the big dot). It took a little getting used to my hold points for elevation but now I love the combination. As for losing the laser, well I don't want to announce my position/presence to someone. I agree about not trading the Glock modded trigger. I love the results that can be milked out and cheaply! I am sure the Ti stuff added some bucks but to get a smooth, light, consistent pull it doesn't cost that much. Now I have a few bucks in the set up for my M&P but I do like it better. And I would not hesitate to deploy as a defensive system, the Glock @ -3lbs pull I would hesitate. Have a good one and stay safe!

pointofimpact on "S&W M&P VTAC???"

pointofimpact — Thu, 29 Dec 2011 23:50:02 +0000

I have a competition Glock: Fulcrum trigger, all the springs - recoil, trigger, plunger, firing pin, and so on and so forth; along with the LWD 3.5 trigger bar, skeletonized firing pin, titanium plunger, etc etc. All in all with the pre and over travel adjustments to the Fulcrum I'm below 2lbs. Not a sensible carry pistol, but I wouldn't trade it for anything; she's my baby. I also own a VTAC .40. As this is the Personal Defense Network Forum, this particular discussion is almost irrelevant. The VTAC is not a race gun. It isn't a competition pistol unless you make the modifications. It is a practical shooter and as such a personal defense weapon. The fibers work great in lighted conditions, and the nights are not overly busy or confusing because they are the only three dots you can see in the dark. This is a great carry weapon out of the box. I personally prefer the VTAC stock trigger to the Glock factory trigger. As long as I can catch my front sight during presentation that's all that matters. If you believe that you will be perfectly aligning your front and rear sights as you press forward you obviously haven't trained properly and/or personally employed a pistol at the close range encounters that are the fundamentals of personal pistol defense. As for the color and finish, I just thought they looked cool.

AE3007H1 on "S&W M&P VTAC???"

AE3007H1 — Thu, 22 Dec 2011 16:50:10 +0000

The PC sear, is that the Pro Series sear? I had S&W do their "Pro Series" trigger job on mine that did include the new sear, I augmented this with brownells' competition spring kit. The trigger still was not where I wanted it! It still seemed to load right at or before the sear brake point. My Glocks never had this problem, one of them even has a 2.4lb pull! Smooth as glass. I decided to take the hit on the cash invested into the S&W pro series kit and go with the Apex Tactical kit with the RAM (return assist mechanism". WOW is all that I can say!!!!!!!!!! Unbelievable how GREAT this trigger is now! Hands down the single best trigger system that I have ever used. Also as an added bonus this kit removes the OEM hinged trigger and replaces it with an anodized billet aluminum with the release lever in the middle like the Glocks. The kit was the Forward Set Sear trigger kit. I believe that they offer it for the VTAC but not the RAM.

Tam212 on "S&W M&P VTAC???"

Tam212 — Wed, 21 Dec 2011 20:36:04 +0000

I don't know the answer to this but I have heard others mention it as well. Currently, my VTAC is at S&W for a PC sear. I should have broken it down and done a side by side comparison with my other M&P before sending it in... I must refer you to the mp-pistol.com forum on this question. As an update re: the slide finishes, it seems there are two VTAC slide finishes out there. The satin gold(finger) and a true matte FDE slide finish. AFAIK, there are no separate S&W model # SKUs... so I don't know why some are getting the matte FDE and others the satin gold. Maybe different production runs? By all indications, the satin gold finish is far more durable than the matte FDE.

Froglives on "Sub-Compact Small Caliber Firearms"

Froglives — Mon, 19 Dec 2011 21:25:17 +0000

<blockquote>cshoff wrote: That is an interesting question, Rob. I would guess it's kinda like a "which came first" situation; did the consumer demand for smaller handguns come first, or did manufacturers "create" a demand by pushing the smaller weapons? One thing is for sure; the popularity of smaller, lighter handguns has certainly exploded for one reason or another.</blockquote> It's all about the "sales" people only buy after they overcome objections, even when they really really want something. So to me, when I see an item surge in sales, I try to see what objections are being overcome by that product, enabling it so rocket up in sales without any salesperson overcoming objections to move it. The comments about a 380 possibly being perceived as not potentially as lethal may be right on target if you look at the amount of non gun-loving individuals procuring weapons and carry permits for personal protection. I would add that folks like that might not normally adjust their dress for comfort as it relates to shooting, personal protection, or out and out combat in their leisure time, and are probably even more restricted at work. My wife for example would much rather crush your skull with any available object, put a small cute gun to your forehead, or stick a knife in your throat then dress less than stunning. Much higher risk I know, but then I am twice her size and wouldn't want to take my chances. Personally I am looking at smaller calibers as I am a big man, and on top of that am carrying extra weight (like most Americans) I find it hard to conceal my truck keys, duty phone, blade, let alone a gun. You folks all seem to have very nice guns, I would love to carry any of them in any caliber, but then I live in California. Until things change I am very limited, I will say though my home defense gun, is a Tipman 98, it shoots .68 caliber glass, 3-5 per second at over 400 fps. Less than all weapons mentioned but very effective at putting anyone on their ass. All in all I would say a lot of folks that are not really ready to kill someone are buying guns for protection, and many of them have lifestyles / clothing styles / body size issues that prohibit trying to conceal a larger type weapon. Thank you for all the information on the site Cheers

AE3007H1 on "S&W M&P VTAC???"

AE3007H1 — Fri, 16 Dec 2011 20:19:23 +0000

yes, thank you so much. I have another question. I just installed the APEXtac. forward set sear and ram systems into my m&p9. Apex states that their systems do not work with the VTAC due to a change in the sear housing. Do you know what this change might be?

Tam212 on "S&W M&P VTAC???"

Tam212 — Fri, 16 Dec 2011 17:39:11 +0000

Yes. I have had one since Sept. Run about 1500 rounds through it. It's an M&P with innovative/gimmicky (depending on your inclination) VTAC sights and a FDE frame and "goldfinger" slide finish... :| There have been some complaints about the durability of that front sight, specifically the fiber optic rod. Some users have reported a disturbing propensity for it to part ways with the front sight blade... There are other users who report the FDE M&P frames experience sticking mag releases whereby the mag does not reliably drop free. Lastly, some folks really hate that goldfinger (think James Bond movie) slide finish. Personally, I think it is on the urban bling side of things instead of being a tacticool FDE finish. Either you love it or you leave it (or request S&W refinish the slide into true FDE). I don't know about the long term durability of this PVD finish. I see no appreciable holster wear on mine (3x weekly dry fire drills, 4 USPSA-style pistol matches since purchase) but others report it's not as wear resistant as the standard black Melonite M&P. You can research the above on the mp-pistol.com forum. There are now several YouTube videos on the M&P VTACs as well as blog posts if you Google "m&p vtac" or "vtac sight". Now, to address your "controversial sight" comment... In all honesty, I am undecided. I've done a handful of pistol matches with it but right now, I am unconvinced it significantly improves upon conventional 3-dot sight arrangements or fiber front/blacked out notch rear. That said, sights are such a subjective and personal thing, so I can only offer you these thoughts. * the front sight post is tapered and narrower than most. * couple this with the wide and deep rear notch and you have more "daylight" between the front and rear sights. More so than the 3-dot tritium and fiber front/black U sights I have on my other M&Ps. * in bright lighting, e.g. outdoor sunlit conditions, the sight behaves like a fiber front/U notch rear. - however, in intermediate light, think dawn/dusk, you can have a busy sight picture with what is essentially six dots bouncing around. I guess the bottom line is you probably have to shoot a VTAC sight equipped M&P (they are available from Viking Tactics for any M&P) with emphasis on rapid shot strings and transitions before you can decide whether you like these sights or not. Hope this helps...

AE3007H1 on "S&W M&P VTAC???"

AE3007H1 — Fri, 16 Dec 2011 12:20:28 +0000

Does anyone have any experience with the new collaboration between Viking Tactical and S&W called the M&P VTAC? It comes in 9 and 40 and sports what can only be controversial sights.

Claude on "Sub-Compact Small Caliber Firearms"

Claude — Mon, 28 Nov 2011 22:56:10 +0000

Coming in late to this discussion but I want to ask a question I have posed to 100s (literally) of firearms instructors. So far the silence has been deafening. Here is the question: What documented incidents are there of private citizens shooting an attacker with a .22 and subsequently being injured? Not interested in law enforcement officers trying to put the bracelets on a bad guy, only private citizens protecting themselves. Nor am I interested in "a friend of mine is a cop in another city and he was talking to a state trooper at a conference in another state who 'heard' that an un-named federal agency said, etc."

swerve on "ccw recomandations"

swerve — Sun, 30 Oct 2011 11:20:53 +0000

Ayoob wrote this up years ago. Get a Beretta 380, one with the "pop up" barrel, so you don't have to manipulate the slide to load or unload the chamber. It lacks an extractor, as do all the "pop up" barrel models, so make very sure that the chamber is properly polished, clean and well lubed. Other wise, you will risk having a failure to extract/eject.

swerve on "j-frame reloading techniques"

swerve — Sun, 30 Oct 2011 11:17:53 +0000

At the ranges at which fights almost always occur, you will have at most 2 seconds before the guy negates your cover. Do you really want to have a gun that requires 5 seconds or more to reload, only holds 5 shots, is very hard to hit the chest with, swiftly and repeatedly, and has very little stopping probability? Man, at the least, go with a Keltec 380, so you have about the same level of "power", 2 more rds, 3x as fast a reload, much easier ccw of the spare ammo, 2x as fast repeat hits. .38 snub has a miserable record as to stopping power, guys. and you KNOW it's hard to hit with at speed. Add in the lack of ear protection, ducking enemy bullets, poor light, target movment, etc, and that poor accuracy (at speed) becomes virtually no accuracy. The 38 snub is a worse "nothing but bluff" gun than the 380.

swerve on "Sub-Compact Small Caliber Firearms"

swerve — Sun, 30 Oct 2011 10:40:34 +0000

Somebody is missing a good bet by not bringing out a shortened 38 Super case, 9x18JB I call it, for the locked breech (only) 380.s Just deepen the chamber by 1mm or so, mark the ammo boxes "for use only in 9x18JB marked firearms", and offer a solid copper, hollowbased, 50 gr hp or segmented bullet at 1800 fps (in a 2.5" barrel like the Keltec. Unless you just can't afford more for practice than a .22lr, and can't afford to have a "practice only" .22 and a "carry" 380, I see no reason to settle for less than the 380 Keltec. It's cheap, it's small and lw enough to always be with you, so why in the world settle for a .32 or .25, with half as much power, and which nobody reloads? Me, I see no reason to settle for less than the PF-9. It's quite "pocketable', a great gun at a great price, and it offers at least 2x the power of the 380. If you load it with CorBon's 100gr PowRBall ammo, it offers nearly 3x the power of the little 380 keltec. Because the 9mm 100 gr jhp WILL expand in flesh, at the 1350 fps it achieves in the Keltec, and the factory 380 jhps won't expand in flesh when fired from 2.5" barrels, I guarantee it. They get less than 850 fps.

swerve on "Sub-Compact Small Caliber Firearms"

swerve — Sun, 30 Oct 2011 10:34:27 +0000

I'd much, much rather spend $1200 on a Rorbaugh 9mm than $$800 on a Sig 380! Sheesh, that's a lot of money, for a gun that might as well be a Star "Pony", which can be had for $300 or so!. At least the Keltec 380 is a mere 9 ozs, smaller, and is DAO, so you need not worry about where it's pointed as you carry it. It's light enough to be worn as a necklace pendant, in a wrist holster, in a bra rig, or on back of neck, or between shoulder blades (normally, for women, under long hair).

swerve on "Sub-Compact Small Caliber Firearms"

swerve — Sun, 30 Oct 2011 10:31:38 +0000

Pardon me, but a 38 snub is nothing great, either, guys. Especially not with standard choice ammo. the plus P 158 gr lhp will NOT reliably expand much, if at all in flesh, from a 2" barrel, and the recoil is such that .30sec or longer is needed for repeat hits (on the chest, at 10 ft or so). If the locked breech 380 Keltec, Sig, Star, Colt, etc, is loaded properly (like an 85 gr Silvertip jhp at 1200 fps) it has a fair amount more usable power than the .38 snub (because it won't waste power on overpenetration) and it can get nearly 2x as fast repeat hits. It's also a lot more discrete in your front pants pocket than a .38 snub, which as Cooper used to say, "makes you look like a potato smuggler". :-)

swerve on "Tom Bryzinski himself said that if a jhp doesn't expand"

swerve — Mon, 24 Oct 2011 15:24:24 +0000

fully in a mere 2" of jello, it's not going to expand at all in flesh and blood. This quote is from Sanow and Marshall's book on Stopping power. Tom designed the Hydro Shok, so he ought to know whereof he speaks about bullet expansion. I've shot many hundreds of critters over the years, with ccw ammo and anyone can prove to themselves that 147 gr 9mm jhps, and 230 gr .45 jhp's, do not expand in flesh and blood. The velocity is just too low to get enough fluid filled tissue flowing into and out-over the lips of the nose cavity to force the bullet to expand (in flesh, now, not in jello). The hide/clothing "clog" the hp cavity enough that it can't "flush" itself clear as it penetrates, as can the higher velocity bullets.

swerve on "If you have to carry a .380, which ammo."

swerve — Mon, 24 Oct 2011 15:19:30 +0000

I shoot vermin type animals with it, and if you do this, you will be really, really unimpressed with most handgun loads, to include 230 gr jhp .45's. :-) The 380 really is very little more effective on the critters than a .22lr. Ditto .45 and 9mm "ball" fmj ammo. Altho most people will howl at that claim, they will never go test the loads to find out for themselves! The Keltec 380 is a locked breech design. As such, it can be safely reloaded to have about 2x the power of standard 380 ammo, but some claim that reloads "can" cause trouble in court. Me, I'd rather have legal trouble than be dead or maimed from having my gun/load not stop an attacker. That having been said, look reall hard at the Keltec 9mm pocket model.

swerve on "loaded magazines"

swerve — Mon, 24 Oct 2011 15:15:50 +0000

if you have a double stack magazine, loading it one rd "short" of full capacity shouldn't matter at all, and may indeed help. Ditto the "1 extra" sort of single stack mags for 19111's. The standard 1911 mag is well proven to be ok after remaining fully loaded for decades, but if you 'overspeed" the slide's cycling, with "extra power" recoil springs, that may not hold true. I've left them loaded for months on end, using an 18 lb spring in a Gov't Model, or a 20 lb spring in a Commander, tho, with no issues at all.

rjfleming on "loaded magazines"

rjfleming — Sun, 09 Oct 2011 17:40:31 +0000

Although not a real study I accidently packed 5 fully loaded standard GI type 1911 mags in a box and put it in storage and wentto Germany for 3 years upon my return to Fort Bragg I never opened the box 4 years laterIi transferred to Utah and 4 years later retired from the Army. After getting to Montana I finally opened the box and found the magazines so 11 years and change I took them out and fired up all 5 mags with out a problem. Not wanting to press my luck I pulled the followers and replaced the springs.

jonbouy00 on "Open Carry: Good Idea or Not?"

jonbouy00 — Tue, 13 Sep 2011 04:07:48 +0000

I heard the show. Listen to AAR all the time. I think you have it right Rob.

jonbouy00 on "loaded magazines"

jonbouy00 — Tue, 13 Sep 2011 03:44:54 +0000

Sigma9mm: Absolutely it helps. I have from time to time left the mags loaded longer than my plan, I was gone or busy with other things, and they always worked fine so I don't think a month or two typically would adversly effect a good magazine, but I did not know what the impact would be over extended periods, and because it didn't effect one, does that mean it won't have any negative impact on any mag? I am talking about Glock 9 magazines. I have had one relative new mag spring fail, but I think it was not right to begin with, so I exclude it from my concern, a new spring and it works fine. Thanks for the helpful comments. Nice to see people so pleasant in a forum instead of the usual smart 'a' comments. I am going to keep looking and see if I can get a definitive answer. :-)

sigma9mm on "loaded magazines"

sigma9mm — Sun, 11 Sep 2011 15:47:27 +0000

jonbouy00, I, too, have seen it documented both ways on the "magazine spring" issue. I do not know of any scientific studies, but if there were any I would question the findings. Magazine springs have variances that would not allow a conclusive study. It would seem that a single stack 1911, 7 round magazine would have different strength properties than a double stack, 9mm, 16 round magazine. Leaving the 1911 fully loaded for 70 years might be fine when fired, but a fully loaded 16 round 9mm might fail after 2 months. With no definitive answer on the subject, I decided to just read, listen to others opinions and do a little study myself. While it may not be scientific, I have left magazines fully loaded for 2 or 3 months and they have functioned perfectly. I have fired over 5000 rounds through my 9mm, rotating the rounds over 4 magazines. That would entail loading and loading the magazines on average 125 times (5000 divided by 4 magazines divided by 10 rounds each) and I can only attribute 1 maybe 2 malfunctions to the magazine in those 5000 rounds. I believe those malfunctions were due to dirt as opposed to a faulty magazine spring. I also went through a period with my gun where I kept getting the same malfunction which ended up being a chipped extractor. Before I found the problem, however, I went through several possible fixes, including stretching the magazine springs thinking they were weak. This stretching has not adversely affected my 9mm at all. It runs just as well now as it did 5000 rounds ago. I realize I haven't really answered your question; however, I have given you more real-world information which you can use to make your own decision on the "magazine spring" issue. I hope this helps. Good luck.

jonbouy00 on "loaded magazines"

jonbouy00 — Sun, 11 Sep 2011 05:32:56 +0000

I am having difficulty with this one. I have seen it documented both ways, both claiming the other is a myth at some point. Does anyone know of any studies that have actually been completed, any information directly from a manufacturer or any documented research on leaving magazines loaded for extended periods? I would really like to know the facts, on this which came first type argument. Currently I rotate magazines, but I would really like not having to if it isn't necessary. I have been asked this question many times and all I can do is relay the two schools of thought, as I do not know the answer. Thanks for any help!

gunslinger454 on "ccw recomandations"

gunslinger454 — Sun, 21 Aug 2011 18:41:12 +0000

I agree that the LCR could be a good choice. If a small revolver is what you're looking for, I would encourage you to look at something in the new .327 Federal Magnum. There are several available from Ruger, Charter Arms and Smith & Wesson, who makes by fat the nicest of the breed. They range in price from around $300 for the Taurus 327 on the low end to $600-$750 on the upper end for the S&W 632's. (The Ruger SP101 & Charter Arms Patriot are right in the middle for around $420 & $500 respectively.) Weight on all of them is in the area of 23-27oz, as so far they are only available in stainless steel. That will help to reduce recoil though. To me the .327 Federal Magnum is the ideal cartridge for a small, J-Frame size revolver. As I see it, it is superior to the old .38 Special in just about every way! First of all you get six .327's instead of the normal five .38's in the same size gun. That's a 20% increase in ammo capacity. Better yet, you also get very nearly .357 Magnum power--Speer's 100gr Gold Dot Short Barrel load is rated at 1500fps/500ft-lbs--with around 10-20% less recoil with the hot loads, and Federal Premium's .327 Magnum low recoil load is still packing an 85gr Hydra-shok at 1400fps/370ft-lbs. Just for comparison Federal's .38+P load has a 129gr Hydra-Shok at 950fps/258ft-lbs. Another advantage is the ability to practice with low recoil .32 H&R Magnum or even .32 S&W ammo. My personal favorite .327 Revolver out of those currently available is S&W's Pro Series 332. It's an all stainless steel version of the Centennial Model J-Frame. It is a 6-shot, 23oz stainless steel revolver with a 2.125" fluted barrel and dovetailed front & rear Novak style night sights. It's a sweet little revolver!!! Set it up with a set of Crimson Trace's LG-405 P20 lasergrips with their nice looking chestnut finish and you'd have a damn nice looking & damn nice shooting little revolver that is ideal for concealed carry. (CTC's LG-305 series lasergrips aren't quite as nice looking, but they are slightly larger and may be more comfortable to shoot.) Or you could go with the Taurus and save a few hundred bucks. Regardless, any snubby revolver benefits from a set of CTC Lasergrips! Hope this helps!!!!

stevenm on "j-frame reloading techniques"

stevenm — Sun, 07 Aug 2011 22:39:41 +0000

Thanks for the response, Mr. Cunningham. I appreciate the straightforwardness. Having re-read my original post, I must apologize. I can see where I may have given the impression that I consider this to be a "gun game". I'm sorry. That was certainly not the impression I intended. My reasoning for carrying spare ammo on the off side is that I sought a way to carry spare ammo whether I'm pocket carrying or not. That way, in a threatening situation, I didn't have to worry about where my ammo is or which method I'd use to reload if needed. Perhaps my thinking here is faulty. So, since I am not set in any one particular way to reload, may I ask what advice you would give a shooter for carrying spare ammo on the strong side while pocket carrying on the strong side? I see speed strips but I get the idea they would be like your door lock key example in a high stress situation, which is why I like the Comp-1. Honestly, please don't think I'm trying to challenge or be a smart aleck. I really am simply looking to learn so I can improve.

GrantCunningham on "j-frame reloading techniques"

GrantCunningham — Sun, 07 Aug 2011 09:34:23 +0000

Thanks for watching! While I like Mr. de Bethencourt, and appreciate the work he's done, I feel compelled to point out that the revolver is not a low capacity autoloader. Using the weak hand to feed an auto is a relatively simple process: shove the thing into the hole. A revolver is significantly more complex, where one must put 5 or 6 things into as many holes, then operate a mechanism to leave them there, somehow jettison the thing that carried them there, and then finally close the cylinder. No matter how you slice it, there is a HUGE amount of dexterity required. Under the conditions of a fight for your life, do you really want to assign that task to the hand LEAST SUITED to performing the task? Gun games aren't real life, because (at the minimum) you're not scared for your life. Performance anxiety, which is what one feels at a match, is not the same as your body's reaction to a lethal threat. What works well in a game should not be taken as what will work well in a fight. Think of it this way: how many times in your life have you inserted a key into a door lock - either your car or your house? Thousands, perhaps tens of thousands. You can do it easily, without thinking or looking. Ever tried to do it in a panic, when you were trying to get away from something or trying to get to a safer area (real or imagined)? I have, and I'm sure others have. What was a childishly simple task becomes a nearly impossible feat -- and it seems to take a LONG time. The solution is simple: carry the speedloaders or speedstrips on your strong side. It's easy.

cshoff on "j-frame reloading techniques"

cshoff — Thu, 04 Aug 2011 21:37:11 +0000

Some information regarding revolver reloads has been addressed in a previous thread. Take a look here: <a href="http://www.personaldefensenetwork.com/forum/topic/revolver-reload-question" rel="nofollow">http://www.personaldefensenetwork.com/forum/topic/revolver-reload-question</a>

stevenm on "j-frame reloading techniques"

stevenm — Thu, 04 Aug 2011 07:28:48 +0000

I have a S&W 642. My typical carry setup is strong side belt using a suit coat as concealment and on more casual days, I pocket carry on my strong side (right side). I have just watched Mr. Cunningham's joint venture DVD with Mr. Pincus "Defensive Revolver Fundamentals" and I really think Mr. Cunningham's reload method is very intuitive and great for using those gross motor skills that we'll have to fall back on during a DCI because it uses the strong hand, which should be the most dexterous hand, for reloading with a speed loader or speed strip. However, I end up carrying my speed loaders on my off side and doing what Mr. deBethencourt calls an 'auto-pistol' reload, which is keeping a firing grip on the gun with the strong hand while reloading with the off hand. I find this to work quite well and even trying it under stress, I can accomplish a reload fairly easily. My main concern using this method is the pressure used in pressing the Comp-1 loader onto the cylinder to release the rounds. Without supporting the cylinder somehow, I wonder if I will eventually damage the yoke and crane of the gun. Does anyone have any experience with this? Are my concerns unfounded? By the way, if you have a revolver or are thinking of one for defensive carry, I'd recommend getting a copy of this DVD. While they don't address too much regarding a snub nose revolver, much of the material is adaptable and there is always something new to learn or a familiar concept presented in a different way that helps make that slight difference in efficiency. Well worth taking a look at.

sigma9mm on "ccw recomandations"

sigma9mm — Sun, 24 Jul 2011 17:54:35 +0000

This may be a little late, but in case you haven't yet made your decision, you may want to research the Ruger LCR in 38 special. The polymer frame and hogue grips are supposed to reduce the felt recoil. It may be a bit on the large size for pocket carry, but you would have to experiment with that at your local gun shop. Hope this helps--sorry for the late response--just joined the forum.

stevenm on "Open Carry: Good Idea or Not?"

stevenm — Wed, 20 Jul 2011 08:03:04 +0000

Sorry to be late to the party, just joined the forum and reading through some posts. The only thing I'll say on OC is that I basically believe that Mr. Pincus sums up my views pretty well so I won't say what's already been said. However, if I may throw in a new twist, I think OC may help protect a responsible, legal to carry gun owner from a situation like this. Here it is: 6 out of 7 days a week, I wear a suit, for personal reasons I have chosen to carry my gun OWB and it doesn't print through the suit coat and when I'm standing still, no one can see it. But, walking to the car, if a gust of wind blows open my suit coat, it might expose my holstered gun. In my state, I think (and hope that most officers disagree with me), that this could be considered brandishing a weapon since it's no longer concealed. OC would at least afford some protection from the accidental view from a situation like that. I hope most officers would employ the concept of intent (I did not intend to expose the gun) and send me on my way with no issues. I can't trust that's true with all officers. Of course, I can mitigate by buttoning my suit coat so maybe it's a non issue. This has not happened, it's just a scenario I think about. The other day that I'm more casually dressed, I pocket carry (in case someone was curious). This has been a great thread with many well made points on both sides, all made in a respectful manner. Very commendable all.

hogdoc357 on "Open Carry: Good Idea or Not?"

hogdoc357 — Tue, 19 Jul 2011 16:45:42 +0000

Rob, I do agree with your statements. I would never restrict anyone the right to carry as they wish. My personal wish for me is to carry conceal. For me, stealth is more important, for my defense and for public attention. I do wish that folks would stop open carrying in order to make a political statement or, in order to challenge the police. Just my thoughts. I also agree with and like the remarks and points made by sigma9mm, the comments above mine.