What are you guys using and swear by? I am currently using Speer Gold Dot .40cal out of my Sig p226. I am thinking about trying some different ammunition and see if there is anything out there that will shoot more accurate.
What are you guys shooting, and results you guys are seeing?
Honestly, I've had good combat accuracy from every .40 cal self-defense round I have tried through my SW40GVE. I'm currently carrying 165 grn. Golden Saber, but in the past have shot Winchester SXT, Winchester White Box 180 grn. Personal Protection, Federal Hydra Shock, and Federal HST. I've never found one to be significantly more accurate or reliable through my particular handguns than any of the others.
There are some (fairly rare) exceptions, but by and large most modern firearms will shoot most modern ammunition pretty darn well. There will be some differences from load to load, to be sure, but I've found they're usually minor - like the difference between a 1.25" and a 1.5" group at 25 yards, for instance.
As I said, there are exceptions, but they are not at all common.
Are you having problems with the ammunition you're shooting now?
-=[ Grant ]=-
No, Iam not having problems with my current ammunition, just curious of whats out there and "what's better".
Also, where do you guys expect your pistols Point of aim to be dead on with POI? 15 yards, 20 yards, 25 yards.....?
Thanks,
Nick
Nick,
This is a defensive forum on the Personal Defense Network. Bullseye shooting is not something we cover. More print space has been wasted on minutia of accuracy from defensive pistols than anything else in the history of the gun magazines. A .5 inch difference at 25 yards from a rest is irrelevant to defensive shooting. As noted above, you are probably not going to see any meaningful deviation in your defensive gun at defensive distances while shooting realistically with ANY modern factory ammunition. If you do, let us know.
-RJP
I used to tell my students/customers..."don't lose sleep thinking about whats the best hollow point, but focus on making the shots that count". Seems to me, a miss with the latest, super accurate, ultra expanding projectile, is still a miss. The only people counting the misses are the lawyers. If your shot is off by 1" in the bad guys chest, YOU are the only one to know (or care). I always figured in regards to auto-loaders anyway, that reliable function was paramount. worrying about a half inch at 25yrds seems pointless (to me) in a defensive sidearm.
by the way, GREAT forum!
stay safe
I sympathize with Nckkangrga, there is a ton of blogs forums and hype out there on what to use and what not to use. “This round is more accurate that that round” or “this round has better expansion” “180 is better than 165”… If you ask 40 people, you get 40 different answers.
I started watching Best Defense, and think its outstanding. After reading Rob’s bio, I myself have often wondered what .40 Rob carries himself, and why? Mainly because of his vast background and expertise in this area. Coming to PDN seems much more reliable than going to your local gun shop or Googling the internet.
God forbid, any of us having to resort to deadly force to protect ourselves or our loved ones. But if your not a Ballistics guru, choosing the right ammunition can be a difficult task.
With that said: Rob? What .40 s&w ammunition do you personally carry?
Thanks
You're right, this is an issue. It's also part of why PDN exists.
Let's face it - it's sexier to write about the latest and greatest bullet than to say "get a hollowpoint somewhere in the middle of the weight range for the caliber, from a major manufacturer, and make sure it works in your gun." The latter is better advice, but the former makes more money!
New ammunition, like new guns, gives the opportunity for a magazine to fill editorial space AND sell ad space. It's win-win for them, but leads the general population to worry incessantly about what round they should be carrying. Until next month, of course, when it starts all over again!
Your time, effort and energy are best spent on the range developing a realistic skill set, rather than 'staking out' the ammo shelves for new arrivals.
-=[ Grant ]=-
Hmmm...looks like a problem with the board's text formatting. I didn't want that to be all italics, really!
-=[ Grant ]=-
Thanks Grant, I totally agree, range development is critical. The best round is: P-l-a-c-e-m-e-n-t. And always make sure the ammo feeds every time.
You said “ Get a hollow point in the middle of the weight range for the caliber”. Is that to say in a .40 S&W, a 165 grain is better than a 180 grain? If so, why? Is a bonded JHP the way to go? Is the Winchester PDX1, a better choice than say, the Hornady Tap? If so why? I saw a post on another forum that stated Federal Hydro-shok’s are out dated, and the newer rounds are much more efficient, but no one would say why.
Its questions like these, we want to know the answer to, without getting caught up in all the hype and B.S. out there. We don’t want to be a pain, we’re just seeking an accurate resource to answer our questions. I carry a Glock 23, or sometimes a Glock 27. I seek really solid advice on what ammo to use. To cut to the chase, I ask the question: What does Rob carry in his .40? And you guessed it….. Why? :-))
Thanks,
Jack
Hey, your right, the text does default to italics....
Would anyone know of an accurate site or resource to find these answers?
Thanks,
Jack
JackMcL wrote:
You said “ Get a hollow point in the middle of the weight range for the caliber”. Is that to say in a .40 S&W, a 165 grain is better than a 180 grain? If so, why?
The middle weights tend to produce a good balance of performance across a wide range of conditions. A bullet that's too light tends to produce shallow wounds, while bullets that are too heavy tend to have excessive penetration. They also tend to function better. None of this is hard-and-fast, you understand, but the recommendation has proven to be fairly accurate over a long period of time.
Is a bonded JHP the way to go? Is the Winchester PDX1, a better choice than say, the Hornady Tap? If so why?
Frankly, you're now getting into the realm of "how many angels will fit on the head of a pin" territory. There may be some small difference in performance between them in a very specific category, but I have yet to see any evidence that there is a huge performance differential in self defense.
There is no such thing as a magic bullet. Picking a PDX1 bullet over a TAP bullet isn't going to make the round perform so much better that you'll have the equivalent of a Star Trek phaser in your hands. Seriously - it doesn't matter. It just doesn't.
That's why I say to pick a modern hollowpoint from a major manufacturer, and make sure it works in your gun. Everything else is just hot air.
Frankly, I'd base my choice on what my favorite gunshop stocks on a regular basis. I'm dead serious.
I saw a post on another forum that stated Federal Hydro-shok’s are out dated, and the newer rounds are much more efficient, but no one would say why.
The HydraShock is a very old design, and the only reason it's still being produced is because it has phenomenal name recognition. The post in the center has a tendency to clog with fabric when going through clothing, and the round sometimes has feeding issues in certain guns. I wouldn't feel totally unprepared carrying it, but plain hollowpoints have shown to work a little better.
Again, any of the more modern hollowpoint designs is what you want. Major manufacturer = Speer, Hornady, Winchester, Federal, Remington. Gold Dot, TAP, Ranger SXT/PDX1, Golden Sabre, HST - I wouldn't have a problem carrying any one in my gun. There just isn't enough difference between them to get all worked up about.
What does Rob carry in his .40? And you guessed it….. Why? :-))
Dunno. But I'll bet he'll say something along the line of "whatever I can get!"
Grant,
Thank you so very much for the info! Your answers cut through all the B.S. I have been sifting through. Your explanation of middle weight making a good balance made perfect sense. So many times before the answer I would get was, “because”….. I especially liked your reference to a star trek phaser… :-)
I have been using Winchester PDX1, Speer Gold Dot, Hornady Tap and Golden Saber, depending what they have in stock. I use mostly 165 and sometimes 180 grain, again depending what the have in stock. I have run a lot of these through both Glocks without any feed problems. So I tend to stay with said rounds out of comfort. I always shoot jacketed, factory loads, for practice. After 6 or 8 months I shoot my “old” carry ammo, and buy new carry ammo.
Again, I can’t thank you enough for the info.
Thanks again,
Jack
Another bit of good of advice that I once heard was,
''Consult your local police department as to what ammo they carry, if its legal for civilian use, get some of that."
As for the Why?:
Police department are always worried about liability, so choice of ammo is extremely critical for them. Its usually a reputable manufacturer=Less Liability.
Its Factory specs (no handloaded franken-bullets)=Less liability.
It also allows for some tiny facet of legal defense when asked about your choice of ammo..."It's what the police use" can go a long way in court.
We are SO lucky with our ammo choices these days. There are so many good rounds out there, in a wide variety of performance parameters.
I'm a civilian, head of security for a regional chain of banks. I work in enviroments where there are lots of innocent bystanders. It's in the Tropics, so clothing is lightweight.
With all of our choices, defining my situation, I can 'dial in' the appropriate ammo. I carry a G26. I can NOT afford a through and through, perforating shot on the badguy. So I pick ammo that should only have about 10" of penetration.
I want a bullet the breaks apart and sheds its jacket, making multiple wound channels and losing energy quickly.
I used to carry Triton Quik-Shok. It was developed by the man that invented the Hydra-Shok bullet.
Pre-segmented longitudinally in to 3 segments.
But I can't find it anymore.
Now I carry Corbon 115gr. JHP +P+. I get 1325fps out of my G26. I've tested it in a Fackler box and it does what I want.
Swade587,
Thanks for the advice. A good friend of mine is an officer, and just promoted to detective at my local police department. They use Speer Gold Dot Duty ammunition in a 165 grain. A bonded JHP. I defiantly agree with your statement I use the same ammo as our police department. My local sheriff department uses Gold Dot Duty Ammo, in a 180 grain.
ZenGunfighter,
I used Cor-bon for years, but it got hard to find. My main carry is a Glock 23, I use mainly Winchester PDX1 and Gold Dot. I have heard pre-segmented works well. I’ve been using bonded for a while. Like Grant said above, it depends why my gun shop has in stock.
One thing for sure, this is turning out to be a great forum… Thanks a lot guys.
My choice, Remington Golden Bullet, has a legal/political spin to it.
Our local PD and their tac team carry the Golden Bullet as their load. It functions fine in my carry guns, and accuracy is combat effective.
I know it may be small insurance, but that way I figure if I am ever involved in a dynamic critical incident I can deflect some "uber-cop-killer-hella-fatal-velociraptor-slayer ammunition" claims from the CA as well as the civil attorney in the inevitable lawsuit.
Will it help? Not sure. Will it hurt? Doubtful.
YMMV
I use some real exotic ammo in my 1911 - plain old Winchester white box 230gr. hollow points :-)
They feed perfectly, they're combat accurate and they're cheap.
i still use the old out dated hydra shok hollow point! but that is one reason i do! it has been around forever and all the rounds produced and use cannot be wrong it is proven!! yes there are some new rounds out there that might be a lil better but the hydra shoks will do what i need them to do! stay safe
http://www.hornady.com/store/Critical-Defense-newammo/
I prefer the ammo that I can buy in quantity. I usually run win white box hollow points, I have the bullets in component form and they work well, seem to be an accurate, and more importantly, reliable bullet shape. I cant really afford to buy the premiums in enough quantity to be sure of reliability in different guns.
I'm kinda old fashioned. I like the 158 gr SWCHP (sometimes called the FBI load) in the larger guns and the 125 gr nyclad in the lightweight things.
In .38 Special revolvers which are not +P rated the Winchester 110-gr. Silvertip has given good accuracy and expansion results from my 2-inch snubbies firing into water. It expands MUCH better than the 125-gr. Silvertip +P load which is loaded with a slower powder and optimized for longer barrels. For a PRACTICE load I assemble handloads using the Winchester 110-grain jacketed HP component bullet http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=1390159765 with 4.7 grains of Bullseye, which shoots to the same point of impact.
In the +P rated and .357 guns I also use the FBI load either Winchesters X38SPD or Remington R38S12. For PRACTICE I reload the Remington 158-gr. .358 diameter lead SWC component bullet http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=1601162951 with 4 grains of Bullseye in .38 Special brass, which approximates the +P velocity and recoil with consistent point of impact.
Our group uses a Dillon RL-550B and buys Bullseye in 8-lb. caddies.
Wouldn't think of using anything else.
I like fast, flying rounds. I carry 135 grain CorBon in all my 40's, 115 grain in my 9's and 185's in my 1911's.
Hi All,
New to the board & new to handgun shooting! I've had my G19 since this past May & gone back & forth between lawman, PMC. Between the 2 I prefer PMC at 115g & like others posted I practice defense shooting at he local range & I get kidded alot about center mass:) I just reply If I'm hitting the bad guy target hen he's going down and it doesn't matter where I'm hitting just as long its on target.
Congrats on your 19. My 23 ( same frame as the 19) is my favorite weapon. I as well, like the PMC FMJ (practice stuff) as it seems to be cleaner than some others.
While at the range, practice using targets other than sillouettes. Something simple as paper plates or an empty 50 round ammo box can help focus your shooting. The point is more practice at putting the rounds on a specific point can help increase overall accuracy.
Glockster23 wrote:
Congrats on your 19. My 23 ( same frame as the 19) is my favorite weapon. I as well, like the PMC FMJ (practice stuff) as it seems to be cleaner than some others.
While at the range, practice using targets other than sillouettes. Something simple as paper plates or an empty 50 round ammo box can help focus your shooting. The point is more practice at putting the rounds on a specific point can help increase overall accuracy.
Hi Glockster,
Unfortunitly here in NYC its a indoor range those items are a big no, no.. however I am getting better my first 5 rnds are head shots then they drift to about 3 rnds or so to arms/hands w/gun then straight down to about 30 in the left kidney area and the rest in the lower hip artery vien area but when I first took out the glock out of the box it was all 50 rnds in the no, no's:) I was able to pass NYS 47 hour armed guard course though!
Hi guys,
I'm new to the forums. I just happened to browse through and saw the topic of ammo so I figured I'd throw in my two cents. I like Hornady ammo. It's never let me down, it's a well known brand, you can get just about whatever caliber and bullet type you want from FMJ to hollow points, it burns pretty clean, and it's resonably priced. For practice I use whatever is cheapest, but I keep a few boxes of Hornady JHP/XTP for personal defense. What do you guys think on the JHP/XTP rounds? I also use Hornady in my rifles for deer hunting. I've found it's just as good as the more expensive stuff. In fact some of my rifles group better with Hornady than just about everything else.
SgtHogan wrote:
Hi guys,
I'm new to the forums. I just happened to browse through and saw the topic of ammo so I figured I'd throw in my two cents. I like Hornady ammo. It's never let me down, it's a well known brand, you can get just about whatever caliber and bullet type you want from FMJ to hollow points, it burns pretty clean, and it's resonably priced. For practice I use whatever is cheapest, but I keep a few boxes of Hornady JHP/XTP for personal defense. What do you guys think on the JHP/XTP rounds? I also use Hornady in my rifles for deer hunting. I've found it's just as good as the more expensive stuff. In fact some of my rifles group better with Hornady than just about everything else.
Honestly, I don't do enough precision rifle shooting to notice much difference from one ammo brand to the next, for the most part. My .30-06 rifle seems to really like the 180 Grn. Remington Core Lokt, so that is the diet I generally feed it. As to the Hornady XTP ammo, as long as you do your job with proper shot placement, it should serve you well.
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