Personal Defense Network Forum » Non-Firearms Defensive Tools

Your non-lethal weapon of choice?

(18 posts)
  1. CrahomPC

    CrahomPC

    New Member
    Joined: Apr '10
    Posts: 2

    Hey guys, I wanted to get a general consensus of what type of weapons would be good for self-defense, while being non-lethal.

    To make a long story short, I recently nabbed the graveyard shift for extra hours and I'm leaving the family home alone at night. I have myself a Smith & Wesson Model 22A just for recreational shooting and I feel that they wouldn't be able to use it for defense purposes in a jam.

    Does anyone have any suggestions or have been in this position before? Would be a major relief for me to have a piece of mind in this situation.

    Thanks!

    # Posted 1 year ago
  2. GManTx

    GManTx

    New Member
    Joined: Apr '10
    Posts: 1

    Pepper spray works great and is non lethal.

    # Posted 1 year ago
  3. CrahomPC

    CrahomPC

    New Member
    Joined: Apr '10
    Posts: 2

    Thanks for replying back! Is there any specific type or go-to brand out there?

    Pepper Spray 3-Pack

    This pack doesn't have a brand, but it does come with 3 sprays. It says "law enforcement strength", as well. But is it quantity over quality in this case?

    # Posted 1 year ago
  4. cshoff

    cshoff

    Preferred Member
    Joined: Jan '10
    Posts: 108

    I know a number of folks who carry the Kimber Pepper Blaster spray. The containers are compact, easy to conceal, can accurately shoot up to about 15 feet, and are aimed in a similar fashion to a handgun rather than the traditional aerosol spray can configuration. You can CLICK HERE for a link to purchase the Pepper Blaster direct from Kimber.

    Disclaimer: I am in no way affiliated with Kimber or any of it's affiliates.

    Now, as to your post; is this something you are looking to purchase for your family members to use for self-protection while you are gone, or are you looking for something you can carry for defensive use?

    Chris S.

    NRA Certified Pistol, PPITH, & PPOTH Instructor
    NRA Certified RSO
    Missouri CCW Instructor
    # Posted 1 year ago
  5. GrantCunningham

    GrantCunningham

    Senior Member
    Joined: Jan '10
    Posts: 63

    I assume that this is for your family, yes?

    If so, I'd suggest one of the consumer Tasers. Using OC in an enclosed space, especially if one isn't prepared for the effects, can be as debilitating to the user as to the target. (Don't ask...)

    The Taser is more effective against a wider cross-section of people, doesn't affect the user (or innocent bystanders), and has a definite psychological presence that a can of OC doesn't.

    It's a lot more expensive than pepper spray, but if you're really serious about less-than-lethal alternatives that work well, it's just about the only game in town.

    -=[ Grant ]=-

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    # Posted 1 year ago
  6. JasonStorm

    JasonStorm

    New Member
    Joined: May '10
    Posts: 4

    I have been sprayed with high concentration OC. I have sprayed several people and animals with high concentration OC. I have had to control/fight those same people after spraying them, or after someone else sprayed me along with the bad guy. All of these situations were cognitive sniper type situations, not defensive or ambush type moments. Any OC delivery system I believe will be too difficult to deliver in an ambush moment to be effective. Unless it is in the hand prior to the ambush, which then you have made a decision to be relatively prepared and or in a position of authority with little obligation to remove yourself from the situation. On top of that it's messy and usually effects more than the bad guy. It can be a great distractor to escape if you can access it.
    Otherwise, trained open hand responses will be your initial response anyway, so go with what your brain and body knows. Then and only then can you access tools in your possession. However, with multiple tools lethal/ less lethal (Taser, Baton, OC) requires multiple training sessions with scenario driven training. Keep it simple. Thousands of women carry OC rolling around in the bottom of their purse, and most women are successful against assaults with just screaming and pushing away danger. Unless you have the ability frequently train in your realistic situation, keep it to what your body wants to do naturally.

    # Posted 1 year ago
  7. kyglockman

    kyglockman

    Member
    Joined: Jul '10
    Posts: 15

    i know i am new here but i will throw in my opinion anyway! i myself and a few others i know really have mixed feelings about sprays and tasers! we also have seen people sprayed with pepper spray and oc and the person still fight like champs! and some of the drug related cases the sprays did not touch them it was like they got sprayed by water! so therefore we are not big fans of sprays! now tasers are another story! i think they are very good and stop the attack cause it attacks the muscles and renders the attacker powerless while the voltage is on! the only reason i do not like them is that wolves travel in packs! and if there is more then one attacker unless you have something to back it up with(gun) it is pointless in my opinion! and i know people most of the time say well if you get one the rest will run but criminals are getting smarter and smarter everyday and dont think they know that while it is shocking one you are vulnerable! so for this reason i would not recommend them to a lady or family! i would not even recommend them to a man unless he had some pretty good knife or at least empty hand skills! unless your wife and or family is dead set against it i would get them a firearm they can use and be confident with to keep at the house and protect themsevles with while you are away!! i just fill that the best defence for multiple attackers is a firearm and that is what we have to be prepared for is the worst case senario, best case nobody bothers your family while you are at work!! my girlfriend is a stay at home mom with are kids and others and i did not want her home alone not knowing how to protect herself and my kids! so wit ha little begging and right at a grand to get the gun she wanted the purse she wanted to carry it in and the gun colored by dura coat,and her permit, but now she carries it everywhere she goes and almost as good a shot as i am! but the piece of mind that it gives me knowing that her and my kids are safe>>>>>>>priceless!!

    just a lil food for thought guys! stay safe

    # Posted 1 year ago
  8. REDHAWK44357

    REDHAWK44357

    Member
    Joined: Aug '10
    Posts: 13

    I dont limit myself to one defensive tool. The tazer can still be used as a stun gun after being deployed. i do carry the kimber blaster as well as a knife or 2. All comes down to distance. If i can index trouble at a distance, its of course easier to prepare for a possible encounter. Close in means that arm-length defense is in order. My cane, that i need, is of course solid wood and i do work out with it on a "war post". Likewise the knives i carry are for the "close encounter of the worse kind". As M Janich says "Have a plan, Work your plan". Thats my 2 cents, feel free to disagree.

    # Posted 1 year ago
  9. yyao12345

    yyao12345

    Junior Member
    Joined: Oct '10
    Posts: 9

    SPAM.

    # Posted 1 year ago
  10. MadScienceMMA

    MadScienceMMA

    Member
    Joined: Dec '10
    Posts: 35

    Howdy All. I'm a new arrival to these shores, but here is my opinion.

    Oddly enough, my non-lethal weapon of choice is my own body. Now, I realize that may not be the best choice tactically, but it's my honest answer. I've trained extensively to use the body as a weapon, so that's what I'll go to if I'm unarmed. It has advantages and it has weaknesses; the bottom line is if you've trained to do it, you will. I'm just going to outline some of the pros and cons of this approach below.

    Pros: I always have my body with me. I've put in the preparation to use it (the top priority for any tool). I'm confident in it, usually training about 3hrs/day.

    Cons: If you smash a cane against a skull, the cane doesn't feel anything... my fist, on the other hand does. If you use a pepper-blaster or Taser, you can engage a threat from a greater range, but you have to close with an opponent to use the body. Also, the size and strength of you attacker comes into play when using the body, but far less so when using something like a Taser. Age, illness and injury all have a greater effect on hand-to-hand ability that they do on weapons use.

    That's a pretty long list of cons, isn't it? Don't get me wrong, I think unarmed close combat is a skill set everyone needs to train/maintain, otherwise I wouldn't spend so much time on it. But mankind invented other weapons for a reason. I would agree with RedHawk that we shouldn't limit ourselves to one defensive tool. Tasers and Pepperspray are good, and then you can fall back on the hands or the blade if they fail.

    Increased training=Increased options.

    Justin White Owner/Operator Mad Science MMA http://www.madsciencemma.com
    # Posted 1 year ago
  11. RobPincus

    Rob Pincus

    Managing Editor
    Joined: Jan '10
    Posts: 59

    Personally, I like the Tasers... and the C2 is great option.

    I am NOT a fan of spray, generally.... but, if that is what you want, I highly recommend sticking with Sabre Red brand. I am familiar with their manufacturing process and quality control (on the chemical agent and the delivery devices).

    KYGlockman, Regardless of whether you carry a gun or not you might consider a less lethal option. And some people won't or can't carry a gun. I think we need to accept that and contribute appropriate to the thread in the vein of the topic presented.

    MadScience, I think that what you are saying is ultimately the truth for everyone, whether you are carrying a gun or not... we need to be capable of defending ourselves with JUST ourselves.

    -RJP

    # Posted 1 year ago
  12. parabarbarian

    parabarbarian

    Member
    Joined: Aug '10
    Posts: 18

    I already have OC spray cans located around the house and I've been looking hard at getting a TASER as another option for home defense. According what I've read they use compressed nitrogen to propel the darts. So what is the shelf life on the cartridges? Is there any good way for a user to practice with one?

    # Posted 1 year ago
  13. MadScienceMMA

    MadScienceMMA

    Member
    Joined: Dec '10
    Posts: 35

    parabarbarian wrote: I've been looking hard at getting a TASER as another option for home defense.

    Just bear in mind that a Taser is only effective while the darts are in contact and the juice is flowing. If the connection is broken the attacker can get right back up. They're great for in public spaces where you can zap and escape, but in your home you should consider a more lethal method.

    Granted, I don't know the specifics of your situation, but I hope that's helpful.

    Justin White Owner/Operator Mad Science MMA http://www.madsciencemma.com
    # Posted 1 year ago
  14. parabarbarian

    parabarbarian

    Member
    Joined: Aug '10
    Posts: 18

    I'm not abandoning lethal means but I have to be realistic. California has a Castle Doctrine law (really!) but the legal system administrators are still sometimes hostile to armed self defense. So, if I shoot an intruder it is a dead certainty that I'll spend some time in handcuffs. Since I plan to say no more to the police than, "I didn't do anything wrong and I want to call an attorney," the responding officers will not be getting back to their favorite Starbucks soon. How that will affect their mood is unknown.

    I look at security in overlapping layers. None of the layers have to be perfect but they must reinforce each other. Externally I try to have a system good enough to convince a would be invader to pick another target. I also know that I will never know how good it is unless it fails so I overdesign. It may sound callus but if I cannot make crime dis sappear I can do my best to make it go somehere else.

    If the external layers fail I fall back on firearms, OC spray, 911, sharps object, blunt objects, kicking, scratching, biting, harsh language and a couple of good lawyers. Not necessarily in that order. A TASER, if I get one, will be another of the less than lethal options for repelling boarders.

    I had tunnel rat tell me that all his training only covered what is already known but he survived because he had a backup plan for the backup plan for that training.

    # Posted 1 year ago
  15. MadScienceMMA

    MadScienceMMA

    Member
    Joined: Dec '10
    Posts: 35

    parabarbarian wrote:
    If the external layers fail I fall back on firearms, OC spray, 911, sharps object, blunt objects, kicking, scratching, biting, harsh language and a couple of good lawyers. Not necessarily in that order.

    Para, you are definately my kind of people.

    Justin White Owner/Operator Mad Science MMA http://www.madsciencemma.com
    # Posted 1 year ago
  16. PersonalDefenseSvc

    PersonalDefenseSvc

    New Member
    Joined: Jan '11
    Posts: 1

    Pepper Spray, Back up for your back up.

    As a pepper spray instructor for over 15 years and having the unfortunate displeasure of exposure to several pepper sprays on the market today, pepper spray is a viable alternative to going to an all out street fight. It should be noted that pepper spray is not a magic bullet, but here is what it is. Pepper spray is a deterent, a game changer and an extra step and a half before the use of deadly force. Given the circumstances at hand, violent confrontations are not always static and can evolve into a deadly force encounter in seconds and the necessity for going to guns is always at the fore front of a violent encounter. When confronted with an assailant you have to consider the totality of the circumstances.If your attacker is coming at you with empty hands telling you he wants to do you harm invading your personal space and placing you in imminent peril of being struck with open or closed hands, he told you he was going to harm you, so spray him. The key here is that he told you he was going to kick your butt or wanted to do you harm and approaching you with empty hands. Can I shoot him? not likely.All situations are not static and he may spontaneously produce a knife or a gun and test your reactionary gap (inside 20 ft).

    What if he does not produce a weapon and he wants to walk up on my personal space inside my reactionary gap and get ready to punch me? Spray em, you have the right to defend yourself. Going to guns may or may not be appropriate given the gender, number of assailants, ability and age. Pepper Spray can buy you time, interrupt the confrontation, disorient and even prevent the completion of the attack. Pepper Spray can also allow you valuable time to decide to go to guns or not after deployment. If you carry pepper spray and a firearm for concealed carry you are allowing yourself to have another tool in your defense toolbox. Carrying pepper spray in pistol free zones also allows you to be some what proactive and prepared and less vulnerable to protect yourself and your family. If all that you have is a hammer, then the whole world is a nail.

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    # Posted 1 year ago
  17. Froglives

    Froglives

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    Joined: Dec '11
    Posts: 10

    I have my preferences, so both my kids and the wife can easily buy some time with what ever bat, golf club, edged weapon is laying around. We practice full contact with minimal protection to get past the lack of familiarity with hard or unexpected contact, but I know that's really all about luck.
    That's why when I leave my family at home, I also leave my favorite home defense tool, a well trained dog. Mine are usually Ridgeback / Shepperd mixes but its not the breed that matters its the training.

    Suffice to say, if an intruder is outside she will sound a warning that the family and the bad guy will hear. If that intruder makes it inside, they will never hear her coming. She will always be between the attacker and my family, (though I am pretty sure she would protect my daughter before any one else, meh so would I) and you will have no choice but try to go through her.

    The really nice thing is a good dog has natural target instincts, you don't have to train them to go for the weapon hand, they are going to remove part of that persons wrist, the throat, soft tissue, tendons you need to walk with? their all part of their natural instinct and diet :-)

    Sure you can drop my dog, but then again you better, because if you don't she's going to drop you, and if she is protecting her "pack" she won't mind a bit dying to do it.

    # Posted 1 month ago
  18. Jon81

    Jon81

    Junior Member
    Joined: Jan '12
    Posts: 5

    [That's why when I leave my family at home, I also leave my favorite home defense tool, a well trained dog.]

    Froglives I couldn't agree with you more. We have a yellow lab that my daughter who is half his size drags to her tea parties by his collar. I have total faith that dog would willingly eat a bullet, ball bat or intruder for my girl or the Mrs. People commonly pose the question "If I choose to keep my bedside gun in a lockbox/safe (a must if you have kids) would I have time to wake up and clear my head enough to bring the gun into the fight if someone kicked in my door and rushed into the house?" With a good mutt snoozing in your favorite chair the answer is absolutly. I see no reason why a trained guard/attack dog could not buy a family time to get out or get armed if there is an invasion and not to mention they are pretty good fire alarms.

    # Posted 1 month ago
  19. AE3007H1

    AE3007H1

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    Joined: Dec '11
    Posts: 25

    As Froglives said. A good pitbull, dobie, rot, or shepard will do just perfect! A well trained dog is the best "semi-non-lethal" you can get.

    # Posted 3 weeks ago

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