PDN LIVE! September 2016

Rob Pincus was joined by Aaron Jannetti to answer questions about Active Shooter Response. Aaron and Rob are co-owners of Endeavor Defense & Fitness in Hilliard, OH and Aaron is the head of their ASR Program. He and their team have taught almost 50 ASR seminars already in 2016. Rob is the developer of the School Attacker Response Course and both teachers have been featured as experts on this topic by scores of media, including The Blaze, which produced a 30 minute documentary on their program.

The discussion covered a wide range of issues, prompted by questions submitted by the PDN audience, including the role of CCW in response plans, the importance of evading whenever possible, and the best steps to take when trying to institute a plan for your workplace or train to prepare your family as best as possible.

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39 Responses to “PDN LIVE! September 2016”


    I’m hitting my late 50’s and wonder what is best for me a red dot or a laser for my 9mm. My eyes are not what they use to be, Looking for a positive fast aim with target lock up.

    • Customer Service

      Hi Johnny. The laser on a defensive handgun would be classified as a tertiary aiming method. They are most useful when shooting from an unorthodox position where the gun cannot be put into and parallel with your line of sight. The red-dot or RMR, like all red dot sights, puts the dot at optical infinity placing the dot and target on the same plane beyond 5 meters or so. This is beneficial for someone that has trouble focusing close and the RMR is one possible solution. There are a good number of popular trainers carrying them on their defensive guns but this is a very small sample size for testing (also keep in mind some are actually paid to utilize this setup). So honestly, the RMRs have yet to be proven sufficiently durable and are also susceptible to issues with screen obscuration in a wet environment (to include moving in and out of air conditioned areas in humid environments). There is a cost/benefit analysis that needs to be done (last check an RMR conversion runs $400 at the cheap end). A RMR is a whole lot of money and trouble just to get a little better (if at all) in those few instances when you really need to use some sort of sight alignment. Finally, they also increase the size profile and weight of the gun.

      Check out the article from Grant Cunningham on the issue you’re describing and some recommendations to deal with it.

  2. Ron Case

    Very informative on making yourself informed to to people your not the bad guy, and have your gun in a nutral or non threatning posision,but at the ready

    • Sam Kirchoff

      Yes, you’ll be able to find the video to review on PDN’s YouTube page in just a few minutes after it gets uploaded.

  3. Martin Aschoff

    What obligation do we have as a non law enforcement CPL holder to protect other innocents, verses just getting ourselves away to safety?

    • Aaron Jannetti

      Hi Martin. Great question! The short answer… None. You have no obligation by legal standing to protect anyone else ever. The goal is to get yourself and your loved ones out alive.

      If you morally decide to get involved, that is awesome. Those around you will be very greatly appreciated. But you have no legal standing at all to protect anyone else.

      I firmly believe that if everyone of the events ends with the attacker being taken down and brutally beaten… they’d start thinking twice about doing it, but even with that being said, we’re not teaching anyone to be a “hero”

      hope this helps my friend. If you have any further questions please feel free to reach out to aaron@endeavordcf.com

  4. Jan

    After taking active shooter defense course, what is a good way to keep in practice with the techniques we learned?

    • Aaron Jannetti

      Hi Jen. This is a great question. Practicing and continually honing these skills is very important, but we also know that time and money are a concern. If you have to break it down, the response comes down to the following:
      1) managing fear/understanding violence
      2) grabbing/grappling
      3) generating force
      4) trauma care
      5) knowing the gun
      6) mindsetting

      mindsetting can be done all day, everyday. The others, you want to identify the parts you feel the most uncomfortable, and attack those. Here are a few tips.

      managing fear/understanding violence: research and read about these events and understand that these situations will be very scary. Accept that bad things can still happen if if you do everything “right”

      grappling/wrapping up: find a reliable instructor in wrestling, mma, bjj and learn to get tied up with someone.

      generating force: find a boxing, thai boxing, mma or self defense instructor to learn to hit people. Hit them hard. If you don’t have access to the, buy a heavy bag and beat the snot out of it every night. Hit it with open hands, closed fist, hit it with a bat, hit it with your legs. Learn how to break things.

      Trauma Care: take first aid, cpr and trauma courses. Practice applying tourniquets on yourself and others. Build a medkit that you carry in your car or on your person.

      Know the gun: go shooting. learn guns, what they smell like, feel like, sound like etc…

      Get comfortable with the things you’re afraid of.

      I hope this helps. Let me know if you have any further questions! aaron@endeavordcf.com

  5. Corey

    What’s the political dynamic of school security and is it acceptable not to have armed staff in schools?

    • Aaron Jannetti

      Hi Corey. Thank you for listening. This is a question we get a lot when discussing this with concerned parents, teachers etc…

      Schools generally shy away from bringing in groups like us, because there’s a lot of liability in us teaching the teachers and students (dependent on age) to possibly wrap up and beat down a bad guy. It’s not something they want to attach themselves too.

      There are large organizations, such as National School Security and Safety Organization, that push heavily on the national level to refuse this type of training to schools. They rely heavily on “lockdown” and give that as the only option for schools. Though lockdown is great, they never address what happens if you couldn’t make it to a lockdown or your lockdown is breached. They prey on that liability factor and know that schools want a simple answer that “solves” all problems even though they truly understand it’s BS.

      Private schools have been much more open to having honest conversations and seeking training.

      Now as for the topic of arming staff. There’s a lot of issue and again liability that goes with this. The one thing I will say is that arming staff doesn’t solve your problems. The amount of training needed, both physically and psychologically for those staff members to truly be able to address that is very high.

      The biggest issue with that solution is simple. If the gunman enters on the east side of the building and all of the armed staff are in different places in the building, those people are no good to those initially being killed. Do those staff members still follow lockdown? If so, then they are really no good to anyone else. Do they go through the building looking for the bad guy? In that case, the training they need will be multiplied by ten AND now we run the risk of them being confused as bad guys by students and also law enforcement.

      So realistically that “answer” is just not that simple and in most cases is going to do more harm than good.

      At the end of the day, we need schools to be open to having honest and real conversations. But I don’t see that happening anytime soon. We normally target the teachers and staff directly and offer training to them.

      I hope this helps. If you have any questions at all please feel free to reach me at aaron@endeavordcf.com

  6. Scott

    Shannon is much too loud… she talks and I have to turn volume down and can’t hear what Rob says

  7. dagnew8

    In the unlikely event that you find yourself in a threatening situation while in the company of a fellow trained or semi-trained carrier, how would you best communicate and/or coordinate your intended responsive actions or lack thereof. Assume you 1) have, and 2) have not previously discussed this situation with your companion?

    • Aaron Jannetti

      This is a great question. In our seminars we discuss coordinated efforts, when possible.

      The first key to this is that you have to understand that all immediate reactions and initial responses to the an imminent threat, will be individual. Whether you coordinated and trained before hand or not. If you’re in the direct vicinity of the attack, there will not be any type of clear communication initially. So again, the best course of action is to always for each individual to train and be prepared to react as an individual.

      That being said, if we do have time (we are in a barricade together, the gun shots took place far away, etc etc…) then coordination and communication is key whether you’ve trained before or not. You want any communication to be simple and clear. For instance if we are in a room and we don’t feel that our “barricade” is secure and you think there’s a possibility he may get in, then you want to discuss how to best set yourself up to take the bad guy down. Do not make things complex.

      “We’re going to stage here behind the door, if he comes through the door, I’ll go high and grab the gun, you go low… we hold him and beat him until he stops moving.”

      “You have your gun. We’re going to stay over here out of view. You keep eyes on the door. Anything that comes through, and isn’t identified as a cop, gets shot!”

      Simple. Direct.

      Communication is imperative. Keeping it simple is best.

      That being said. No matter what communication you are able to create, ALWAYS assume that when the shit hits the fan, your companion/coworker/friend will most likely get scared. We ALWAYS assume we’ll be the only one to react and have to be prepared to act as an individual.

      That puts the responsibility of taking command and control on you.. ALWAYS.

      I hope that helps my friend. If you have any further questions please feel free to contact me at aaron@endeavordcf.com

  8. Wes

    Very interested in recommendations for handling active shooter situation in a crowded, large church. Church security is very inadequately thought out and planned. For 97% of the churches.

    • Aaron Jannetti

      Hi Wes. Great Question. We actually have been spending a lot of time working with churches across Ohio on this exact issue. In fact I have a training with a local church here next weekend for their elders and leadership staff.

      As I mentioned in the LIVE broadcast, situation to situation, the overall plan will always stay the same. Get out, keep the bad guy away, respond if needed. When dealing directly with the Church th e first step is to educate your members on that subject. What are all available exits to the members (not just the main entrances they are used to). Where are places in the church that could be good for secure barricades? Train the leadership first and foremost and build those concepts into their plan. Then offer similar training for members on a voluntary basis.

      Another thing to consider are good preventative measures. Are the doors of the main room closed during sermons? Do you have people stationed at those doors to greet people before they enter? When new people visit the church do you have someone that welcomes them and escorts them to answer questions while also looking for concerning signs that may signal a threat?

      These simple steps can help the leadership to recognize threats earlier which will allow the rest of the congregation more warning time to respond in a more efficient manner.

      I hope this helps. If you’d like more information or have further questions, please don’t hesitate to reach out. aaron@endeavordcf.com