PDN LIVE! June 2018

All right. So apparently I am live now from Cedar Valley Outfitters, here in, let me see if I can make this work, here in, where am I? I don't even know, Cedar Rapids, Marion, Iowa. So this is PDN live coming to you in a live location remote today here on Facebook because we had some issues with the YouTubes. So I'm not exactly sure what's going on. I know Brown Al's lost their YouTube and some other people lost YouTube. I don't think that the PDN YouTube has been shut down, but we definitely were shut down, live tonight over there. So here I am wandering around the store and taking your questions in the comments or just kind of riffing on a free for all for tonight was Ask Anything. So it was all about personal defense. Usually we talk about armed defense guns. Brad Pidel, I'm your man, cause you're the first guy to make a comment. So throw a question if you have one Brad, otherwise I'm going to get a kind of random, and I'll talk about some of the things we've been doing in, hello Molina. I've talked about some of the things we've been doing in classes. Of course, I've been running a lot of classes. Hey Brad221B. So the, one of the things we've got is, I guess during the tour, one of the coolest things that happens is the diversity that we get in our classes. The diversity that we get amongst our student body, right? We end up in a situation where we have people who are incredibly experienced. We have people who've been in multiple classes, maybe alumni, maybe even instructors. Yesterday, I was working on a range in Minneapolis and we had one of our instructors from Iowa, from not too far from here, Chad Colby from Exit Strategy Training, from one of his students was with us. Another alumni that I've trained with was with us. We had two police officers that worked at the range we were at and another guy, I'm not sure if he had any law enforcement experience or not, but he clearly, he worked at the range and he definitely had a lot of shooting experience. So that class, we ended up really, I posted that, I just said we did some freestyle stuff. It's actually going to be something new coming out through Personal Defense Network, some of the content that we developed there and the stuff that we were doing, we started in the morning sort of thinking, okay, well let's just do the fundamental stuff. Let's go over helping people kind of see what happens on the range for this new new deal that we're going to be doing. And it turns out these guys were such good shooters, they were so good at the fundamentals that we just decided to go in a different direction. So if you're already in weapons technologies, one of our personal events network training tour sponsors, who was thereby. They came over, they brought some of their latest and greatest stuff. And we ended up, I see Nathan has just joined in, and we just had a actually one of my holsters that's right here. One of my crossbreed holsters, Nathan's with Crossbreed, one of these holsters. You can see that little bulge right there is all about a magnet to work with the Instant-On Laser that I have on my XDS. Springfield, by the way, is sponsoring tonight's PDN live. And if we were on YouTube, like we planned, we have a nice flashy commercial, but here's a commercial for them. This is my actual carry gun This is the gun that I rely on to protect myself or others in a public space as I move around earth in the tour truck. And this is a Viridian Reactor Instant-On Laser that works with that crossbreed holster. So we actually did some stuff with Veridian Instant-On Lasers. We talked about why one might want to have a laser on their gun, especially a laser instead of a weapon mounted light. If you had to choose on a subcompact gun like that, but the fact is, most guns, even that one, the rail mounted guns, you can have both. You can have a laser and a light. So I think the combo laser and light actually expands the capabilities of a defensive gun far more than just a light. The laser can be used as a tertiary aiming device. We've talked a lot about that on PDN lives. So we had some advanced students we got to do that with. Today's class here in Iowa, most of the students were not as advanced, were not as good to go in terms of their fundamentals. So what we ended up doing with them when we got, I'm going to grab a chair, make myself comfortable. So we ended up with them getting into a situation where we had to really work on just helping people understand what they're good at, helping people understand what they're capable of in terms of personal defense shooting, right? Not marksmanship, not controlling the gun on the range, not shooting type groups, not reloading, you know, fire one, reload, fire one kind of stuff, but really understanding the difference between a perform skill and an applied skill. So we worked tonight, I don't know, I guess we were on the range probably for about 10 hours, 9, 10 hours, and at the end of the day, we weren't doing things like using a laser from a retention shooting position. We weren't doing unorthodox shooting positions, rolling around on the ground, all that kind of stuff. We were working fundamentals in an applied sense. We were doing wind sprint drills. We were doing facing drills. We were doing cognitive drills. And what happens there is a lot of people end up leaving, really with a much better sense of what they're capable of. We always say you should leave your training with three questions answered, like from the training. What are you good at? What are you confident in being able to do? What should you be better at? Not what can you be better at? We can be better at a whole bunch of things, but what should you be better at? And then after that, what we're looking for is how do you get better? Right? Making sure people understand how they need to train after they leave the range. A lot of people say, well, do I have to take another class? Or I don't have an instructor near me, or I can only train in a traditional range or I can't do presentation from the holster. You know, how do I do things? Well, get a cert pistol right? I carry a small gun, a single stack gun, four inch barrel. So I use a small single stack kind of subcompact-esque cert pistol for my dry practice training, right? For presentation from the holster, all that stuff. I can practice shooting on a range. They can go to their traditional range with a real gun, practice all their actual shooting and recoil management, the stimulus response patterns, learn some slide lock, doing a reload, or malfunctioning clearing, whatever that might be. But when it comes to presentation from the holster, if you can't do that at the range, okay, well then we'll be in a situation here where I can practice that, right, dry, just to the ready. Right? Maybe I can extend out to the first shot and I get that first shot, but I wouldn't want to train multiple shots strings of fire with the cert. Why? Well, there's no recoil with photons. So you gotta know what to train and what not to train. Let me go see, I did have a couple of questions. Robert asked, when is the next book out volume two? Volume two was actually, I just saw it for the first time last week, and I'm expecting a case to show up here at Cedar Valley Outfitters tomorrow, which will be great. It's going to be actually the first case that I have and I'm sure that Ernie and his team here will want to put a couple in the store here, but mostly you're going to be able to get that through obviously USCCA. So we published that as part of the new USCCA Live Fire Program. We had over 50 students go through that Live Fire Program with 11 counting me, I guess 12, 13, 14 instructors. I think on the range with them at various times. Friday was just another instructor development day for the team that wants to become training counselors. The instructors have been working over the last year, and Saturday and Sunday, Jamie Onion, the director of our Defensive Firearms Coaches Program, which a lot of that is based on, a lot of that Live Fire Program is based on, especially level one, and Deryck Poole, one of our Senior Combat Focus shooting instructors from the I.C.E. team led the instructors in a sort of evaluation process of their ability to teach and lead others to see who's going to be the training counselors that run the first public open enrollment instructor development for the Defensive Shooting Fundamentals level one and level two courses that USCCA is going to have up in Wisconsin. So that was all going on. So book two is available. USCCA will probably be offering that for sale relatively soon. Somebody said, how's the tour going? It's going great. Super crazy busy. Mr. Baker, so he said, do I think that the Springs Springer, I think he was saying Springfield XDM line, is as good as the Glock. Personally, I like the XD Mod.2 as the kind of gun of choice. I think it fits more people's hands better than the XD-M, particularly. This is actually a loaner gun. We use this a lot on the tour. You can see it's kind of dirty and beat up. We had a female student in the class today who went through three different guns. She liked this one the most in terms of the trigger press and all that kind of stuff. I think it probably fit her hand about as well. She was also using an M&P, but she liked this one the best in terms of the trigger press. The M&P fit her hand also really well. She used that for a lot of the day, and she actually had, I think the first gun another student letter borrow was that M&P and it was a 2.0, and we got this into her hands at the end of the day. Actually, Steve Rendle, who's over here somewhere. He was running around earlier. He's another local instructor, one of our CFS team instructors, He worked with her with this gun and boom. She was in. So that worked out really well for her. Now, as far as my personal opinion, you know, Springfield would not be the sponsor of the tour, it certainly wouldn't be my carry gun if I didn't think, I don't know why I can't lock it open today, if I didn't think that it was a viable option, if I didn't think it was a good, reliable gun. The thing with the Springfield line is there's a little bit of a complication in that the XDS is the single stack, and it operates a little bit differently than the XD and the XDM. And then there's the original XD. And then there's the XD Mod.2. So the only confusion comes from which gun, why, do they all work together? Are they all the same? Well, just like some of the other brands, you know, this magazine won't work with that one, or this thing doesn't go the same way as that one, this one's ambidextrous, this one's not. The thing with the XDS that I really like is that you can move the slide with the XDS without having to have the rip safety depressed, right? And with the larger guns, you do need to have the grip safety depressed, or the slides can't be moved. Generally, obviously, if you have a good firing grip, it's not a big deal. So overwhelmingly it's not an issue until for some people in some of the compromised positions, when we do one handed, weak handed reloading or something, that can be a little bit more of a challenge to make sure that that grip safety is pressed. When we teach people this with a non ambidextrous gun, most of the time we tell them to put their thumb here when they're racking the slide on a belt or on their holster or on magazine carrier, if it's a right-handed person on the left side of their body. So that's exactly the pressure point. And if you don't know that, if you have a bad technique, you may not have the grip safety depressed when it comes time to lock this down. If you have the good technique, what I think it's the proper technique, pushing down there so that your index finger has the freedom to push up on this slide stop, it's not an issue. As far as the XDM, some people like it because it uses bigger magazines. They called it the megazine when it was first released, the 19 round magazine in the full size one. Personally, I really like the Mod.2. I think the Mod.2 is the way to go. I did the first review, even before Springfield was importing these guns, when they were the HS 2000, I think I did the first review. Actually, I think it was maybe the first magazine cover picture I was ever on was for SWAT magazine, the review of that gun, late 90s, very early 2000. And it was, it was a good gun then. Shot it in 40. You know, 40 was cool then. It's definitely not as popular now. Nine millimeter ammunition has come a long way. We've had that conversation. So, I liked it then but I didn't fall madly in love with it. A couple years later, I got reintroduced to it. And now, and for the last, probably six, eight years, we've said in IC training, and I've said personally, that the Glock, the M&P, and the Springfield XD series are the three guns that someone looking for a defensive firearm should try. They should go find those guns and see which ones fit their hand best. Now, over the years, the Glock was the go to because the Glock was really the first of the, what I call the modern striker fired guns that was, you know, widely available, affordably priced, and was reliable. Of course a lot of law enforcement adopted it. So Glock started, you know, I mean, now what are we? 90s, I mean, it's over 30 years now. We've had the Glock, you know, widely available for well over 20, 25 years. And it was the standard. I carried a Glock forever. Shot Glocks more than anything else. I would say for a long time after I switched from 1911, switched from the steel guns, the metal guns, and bought in all the way. It took me a long time to break away from that. When the Springfield, sorry, when the Smith Wesson M&P came out, after the Springfield XD, that was really the first gun that I really looked hard at. And in the mid 2000s, 2006 or 5 I think they came out. Started shooting them and they fit my hand better than the Glock did, but I didn't make the switch, because you know, magazines, holsters, all the other stuff. But I always knew I could shoot it a little bit faster, a little bit better. Then the Springfield XD-S came out and this was really the gun that changed everything. In fact, I almost posted a throwback Thursday. I might do it later this week. Cause I found the picture of me. I bought this gun at retail when it first came out, especially the forage. So I'd been shooting the, the XDs, and I knew if a Valhalla going back to the mid 2000s, about the time the M&P came out, we had the Springfield XDs as our primary loaner gun. After the evolutions that we went through in the early days of Valhalla, by the mid to late 2000s, 2006, 7, the Valhalla general loaner gun for the average person was the Springfield XD because it fit more people's hands, right? Even before the Mod.2, it was more accommodating to more hand sizes. So we could get more people that could fit the gun properly with their thumb completely on the weak side of the gun, run everything the way they needed to run, shoot it well a much deeper kind of contour here that filled the hand for most people. And it wasn't blocky like the Glock. So I was really familiar with the ubiquitousness and the usefulness of this as a loaner gun for a decade. But it was really the four-inch XDS that made me switch because I really liked this configuration. Before this I was carrying a Glock 19 that was custom chopped down for 26 size magazines and I had been thinking about going to a single stack. So when this one came out, I shot it. I fell in love with it. I said, yeah, this is the right for me. I'm a smaller guy. This was the right configuration, appendix carry. This is the right length magazine for me. I can keep, you know, seven plus one. The four inch barrel's easier to shoot, right? It's heavier and faster to shoot. It's interesting to me, they sell a lot more of the 3.3 inch than they do the four inch. I don't know why. I think this is much better choice. It's much faster to shoot. People talk about longer sight radius for aiming, sure, more power from the extra 0.7 inches of barrel, yes, but it's really the weight. So you think just 0.7 inches, but it's more weight. Slide-wise is really different and more momentum going forward in the slide, weight helping you manage recoil. So I switched to this and shortly thereafter, I had a good working relationship a lot of the guys at Springfield armory, so shortly after I started carrying this, then we had the conversations about, Hey, do you want to become you know, could we become the tour sponsor? And we'd never had a head gun sponsor. One of the reasons was as primarily a handgun guy, I thought it was really important, excuse me, to be able to maintain my integrity and say, you know what? We don't have a hand gun sponsor because I have to be able to say to people, "The one that fits your hand best from this group is the right one for you." I can't just say Springfield, Springfield, Springfield or Glock, Glock, Glock, or FN, FN, FN. There were other handgun companies that had asked to sponsor the tour that it was an easy, no. There were some that I wouldn't recommend them. I wouldn't carry them, so when it came to one of those three asking, I just had to have the conversation with them. As long as you understand that, you know, I'm carrying this gun now. We don't know what's going to happen in the future. I think this, or at the time before the Mod.2, I think the XD is a great loaner gun, but if it doesn't fit someone's hand well, I can't say to everybody, you know, this is my default loaner, right? I've got this one or now it's the Mod.2, but originally it was the regular ones. I had the shorter one, had the full five inch tactical Mod.2 now that I would say, "Here, try this gun." If it didn't work for them, for whatever reason, I needed to be able to have the integrity as an instructor first, before I'm a, you know, representative or, or endorsed by, or run the tour that is sponsored by, as the technically right way to say it, Springfield Armory. I have to give people what they need as students. Right? And give you all the advice that you need as students through PDN. So they understand. They get it, right? So I'm going to, I'm going to take a student's gun, whatever gun happens to be near me when I need to demo something, boom, Oh, I have an M&P in my hand, it doesn't matter, right? Now here tonight I'm gonna talk about something. I'm probably gonna use the Springfield because guess what? Springfield's a sponsor of the PD live tonight, and they're friends of mine, and they're great guns, and they're tour sponsor, and I'm on the tour, and all those obvious business reasons, and personal reasons, and integrity reasons. But they signed up for this, knowing that it doesn't mean I'm never going to touch another gun or that I'm not evaluating other guns constantly. So long answer, but yeah, I think these guns are the the equivalent of the Glock. I mean, you know, Glock's had its issues with some of its releases, right? Sig's had its issues with some of the releases. Every gun company potentially has problems, but these guys have done a great job. They really have. They had a, I think that the XDS four-inch has been out for, I don't know, when did I switch? Five years maybe that I've switched five, six years? So let's see, legalities for choosing reloaded ammunition for self-defense. I wouldn't choose reloads ammunition for self-defense just because I wouldn't choose. Why would I want to take my own personal reloads? That would be ridiculous, because I don't have the patience or detail orientation to do reloading or time. But also when you think about the quality of factory ammunition out there, it just doesn't make any sense. Right? So if you mean personal reloads, it's not even an option. If you mean remanufactured ammo, you know, again, well, I don't know why you would take the chance. I, we shoot a ton of AngelFire. We should a ton of, I see students come through with all kinds of cheap reloaded, remanufactured whatever ammunition on the range. No problem. Great. More training, more training. But more training for less money. But when it comes to, to carry guns, no, I wouldn't consider it. So it really doesn't matter what the legalities are. And people are, you can argue anything you want, right? Somebody can say, I have this laser on here, and it makes it because I don't know, I wanted to intimidate people. So I have a laser on here because I wanted to do something at night. I don't know why, but they could sue for whatever reason. And our prosecuting attorney could potentially, if I got charges pressed for defending myself with this gun, could make a big deal about the laser. But for the most part, I think the experts in industry are going to say, no, that lasers on there to help me be able to predict where that bullet's going to go in situations where I can't get my gun into a shooting position where I can't have, I don't have the contrast to use my sights when I need them. Well, now can I can look at that laser dot and have that as a way of controlling my gun in an unorthodox shooting situation. So it's really makes me a more responsible gun owner because I can aim this gun under a wider variety of circumstances than a gun that doesn't have a laser and that's the argument you would make. So if there was some way, some reason you needed to use reloads that you, you know, whatever somebody kicked your door in and the gun you picked up that happens to be next to a magazine that loaded with your reloads for training tomorrow, and you make ready and drive the guy to the ground. And then somebody says, "Oh, he used reloads." Well, call me, you know, get some expert witnesses on your side there. What do we got? When is the instructor development class? Robert, I'm not sure. I think it's the third weekend in July but that one's full, That one we closed. And then there's another one I potentially scheduled for August, but you'd have to check with USCCA on that. Cert pistol with sites? Yeah. And actually this one, it's funny. I, you might've seen me adjust it a little bit. This one is a little loose. I use this one in an extreme close quarters tactics class actually as a demo gun and for some of our retention work and all that, and it, it has survived unscathed. It has the base and a little bit loose, but it's still there. This is the dual laser. It's the prep laser as well as the actual green laser. One of the things I like to see people do is get that laser to come on as quickly as possible. Right? I don't like to stage at the takeoff and then see that come on. I want to see people be able to drive out and get those lasers to come on about the same time because I want to press through that break. Now that's one of the things we do. But yeah, this one, I love the fact that they, they get it, right? I've actually asked Springfield to work on a Sim gun or a UTM gun, Simunitions or UTM either one that will work on this size gun, because as we now, it's not just law enforcement and military, right? We have 30 million people that can legally carry a gun in the US. I think it's like just over 15, on the top side of 15 million on the, Somebody asked me to do the Norwich University Cadet Creed. Go, no. The 30 million people, just over 15, it's north of 15 that we have permitted and we have under 15 million that now live in states that are constitutional carry and can legally own a gun, which means they could legally carry. So, when you look at the landscape, like when I went through the Police Academy, you know everybody who had a gun concealed on them was considered a bad guy. You had to treat him as a bad guy. Cause guess what? In the 90s, there were many fewer permits out there. And not only were there many fewer carry permits, but the guys teaching at the Academy level, they had been in law enforcement for who knows, you know, 10 years, 15 years, 20 years. The guys influencing the curriculum in 1980s, there were hardly any conceal carry permits across the country, right? I mean in 1986, you couldn't carry a gun in 12 or 13 states. In 1990, you couldn't carry a gun legally in Texas. There was no provision for concealed carry. So you think about how the landscape's changed. Well, now it becomes really important for, for companies like Cert and Simunitions and everybody else to support for high level training, the compact gun market, right? When 97.999% of your business, for a company like Simunitions, is in law enforcement. Well in the military, you look around and you see why it's Berettas, Sigs, and Glocks that primarily have the conversion kits, or that they make dedicated guns for. Well, the landscape's changed, right? So now we need it to make sure we're supporting smaller guns too. Nine, Brad, nine period. Nine, nine 40 or 45 firm defense. I don't care what your defense is. If it's a gun, nine. Let's see if I missed any other questions. What else we got there? I actually lied. I don't normally read my own questions. Like either Sam, she was dealing with these these problems with YouTube and Shannon's had some kind of a thing, firewall. I don't know what. She couldn't get on. So I was like, you know what, we're doing this on Facebook. We're doing Facebook live. Talk about the training development classes. I will do that in a second. Reed says any knowledge of Springfield coming out with a five inch XDM tactical versus the 4.5 inch? I have the five inch XD Mod.2 tactical. I don't know anything about the five inch versus the 4.5 inch in the XDM. I actually have the XDM and the OSP model. It's the one, if you've ever seen me use the gun that has the, what's it got, an optic on it? It's got a hollow sun on it now. They shipped it with something else. It's got the red dot and it's got the threaded barrel and I've got my Veridian at second generation X5L on it, and it's got a SilencerCo suppressor on it usually. So that XDM, I pull out every once in a while as an example of like, this is probably not, you know, the gimmick field kind of thing you want for home defense factors. They are for personal events. There's actually a picture of it in the new Defensive Shooting Fundamentals level one book, but as far as the MD or the XD Mod.2 five inch, obviously this is the four inch, I really like that. I liked the feel of the five inch gun in the Mod.2 way more than the M personally. What's my take on guns stores having no guns stickers. I think it's because patches have become so much more popular in the training community, so they don't usually have stickers anymore. Oh, wait a minute. I don't think that's what he means. I think he means posted on the window. You can't carry a gun here. I assume that's what you mean right, Kyle. So when you go to gun stores or you go to gun ranges or you go to gun manufacturing facilities, and they have, they're posted, right? It's like no concealed carry allowed. It does sort of make me roll my eyes. I, I don't like it. I advise against it. I actually, I'll some pretty kind of direct conversations, you know, the awkward conversations. Problem is you gotta remember, most people that work at a gun manufacturer for example, right? They may or may not be gun people. They're, you know guys who run CNC machines or guys who run EDM machines. There are people who work in fulfillment. There are people who handle advertising or accounting and that accountant is an accountant, right. We don't in the gun industry, it's like anything else, you think if you go to Bowling, Green, Kentucky, and you go to the Corvette plant, like the accountant at the Corvette plant isn't a high-speed sports car enthusiast necessarily. Maybe they are, cool, but probably not. You look in the parking lot and they drive Hyundai's and Toyotas or whatever. They don't all drive Corvettes, much less all drive GMs or something like that. So same thing at gun factories, right? So if you go to a gun factory, it's a factory. It's not the politics of the factory, and this is worldwide, by the way. It's the politics of a factory. So if you're in, I don't know, Arkansas or Tennessee, it's probably way more likely that lots of the people that work at that factory carry guns. If you're in Illinois or you're in Detroit and in a factory that makes gun parts, it's probably way less likely. I, I have some parts being made at a factory that was posted and some stamped parts, and I talked to them about it. You know, it's they're a vendor. They make some parts for a project I'm working on it. I said, you know, I'm going to come in and I want to talk to the guys who are actually doing the thing. And I don't, I can't let my politics keep me from manufacturing the thing that I need or working with people. Now, if two, all other things being equal, these guys are pro gun and they're gun guys, and these guys aren't. Of course I'm gonna choose the guys that are. Will I pay an extra 10% for that? Sure. But will I wait an extra eight weeks? Probably not. I mean, I've got, you know, business has to be done. And so when I see a gun store, that's posted, I got to wonder is that like people say, "Oh, it's the insurance." I don't, I don't know. I've never seen an insurance policy that states you must do this. I've never seen a insurance directive. I've never had a phone conversation with someone that works at insurance company that says yes, we require if they're going to have our general business liability insurance, we require them to not. I think that's a cop out. I honestly, I think what it comes down to is some gun people are reckless. Some gun people aren't good at guns. Some gun people are complacent with their gun handling. And it's a environment issue to remind people, Hey, listen, we're not going to strip search you. We're not going to wand you. You don't have to walk through a metal detector. But if you see that sticker on the door, you walk in, you're not going to be inclined to pull your gun out and go, "Hey, I want you to fix these sites for me." Right? You're going to go back to your car, or the next time you come back into store, your gun is going to come out of a box like this. And you're going to have it in a obviously safe condition when it comes out of the box, because you know that you can't pull it out of your holster and say, Hey, it may be loaded. May not, and it probably is loaded if you were carrying it, like, Hey, I was hoping you could work on this for me. And that happens. You can't find a person who works in a gun shop that hasn't had that happened. Now I'm not supposed to say that, because Huffington Post is going to clip this out of the PDN live and say, "Even Rob Pincus knows that some gun handlers are reckless with their guns." Well, yes, some gun owners are reckless with their guns. Do I think the right way to handle that from the store's perspective is to put up a sign that somehow politically tells somebody who is coming by, just walking by, and they're going to the donut shop, and they're like, "Oh, look, that gun place doesn't allow conceal carry. That's weird." And that's why I don't think it's a good idea. From a personal offense standpoint, you know, the idea that I'm going to not carry a gun to go into the gun shop does seem ridiculous also. So I would have a real talk with the management if you found a place that had that. With a CLAW sights from, What you need to do, if you want CLAW sights or anything, I got CLAW sights here on his one. I've got CLAW sites here on this one. If you want CLAW sights, go directly to AmeriGlo. I'm horrible at retail. It is funny sometimes to see people say, "Oh, Rob's more of a businessman than he is a trainer." I don't do. Anybody who collaborates with me knows I'm not the business guy. Like I don't, I don't even stock these. Yeah. I designed them. I love them. I use them, but I don't, you know, that's AmeriGlos's thing. So go to AmeriGlo and get them directly from them. Best advice for safety team development in churches is get training in, you know, there's a difference between a safety team in a church, Anthony, that's job is we're going to sit around until there's an active shooter. and then we're going to rescue everybody, and a church security team. Church security team that's going to get involved in anything needs to be a lot more flexible and a lot more well-trained, not just thinking about, you know grabbing the AR that's in the secret pew foldout container and saving the day. Church security is about a lot more than just active shooter response. Church security is about a lot more than guns and shooting, obviously. I think one of the hardest things for church security, one of the first things I say to them is, you know, are you prepared for the fact that in your training, not just nod and, and roll your eyes, and move on because it's awkward, but are you prepared in your training for accepting that the most likely attack at your church is going to be done by someone in your congregation or a family member of somebody in your congregation? If you're not ready to accept that, you shouldn't be church security person, because that is the most likely scenario. So if you're not mentally ready to say you're ready to see one of your congregation members doing something hurtful to another congregation member, and step in and not freeze, and just be like, "Ah, ah, ah" right? Or if a church member comes to you and says, "Hey, I'm a little worried about my brother or my brother-in-law, or maybe if you were in Texas, my son-in-law, because that was a son-in-law of someone in the congregation who went to that church to shoot it up, who was having problems with that daughter, right, within his marriage. So you have to be ready for that. And if you're not ready for that, then you're not ready for church security. That's the first thing, but there's lots of people to do training. In fact, we have a lot of articles at PDN written by guys who do church security training. I've done a lot of it. In fact, I've done some here in this region, in the Plain states in the past, and what I'll do usually because it's, I don't even charge a lot of money for it. What I usually like to do is say, okay, I'll do, if Cedar Valley Outfitters is hosting me and you want me to get together with your church security team, or your church security ministry, for like two or three hours one night to help, I'll do an assessment. I'll walk around. We'll do a little seminar. You might want to have a couple of your guys come into a class. If we have some open slots, I'll kind of donate that. Or sometimes I've had churches host classes, open enrollment. They rent the range. They do the advertising, a bunch of church members go through a regular pistol class, and then the next day, I'll spend with them at their church or I'll do something special for their team. If they're, they're already trained in the big picture security stuff and they want some gun stuff, we'll do that. So reach out if you're, if you're interested in that, we try to work it out when we can. But for the most part, it's something that there's some special specialists that do that. You know, I know Aaron Israel does some of that stuff down in Dallas-Fort Worth and some other guys. Brian, hi from Chicago. Jeff, Jeff, you bring up something really cool. I go in anyway and I'll say, I didn't see the sticker. Now in some states you can just say, I didn't see it. In some states, it's a misdemeanor. In some states, I'm sure it's a felony In some states, it's the thing where all it really is, is a trespassing. They're going to tell you, please leave, and if you don't, they can serve you as a trespasser. Here's the deal. Any, I don't care what it is, the movie theater or the mall, the, the restaurant, if you go in, and if it's the private property issue in my opinion, if you have, if you're carrying a gun, it used to be common sense, right? I think Farnam's thing used to be, "Don't do stupid things in stupid places with stupid people," right? Like, don't go to the illegal poker game at three o'clock in the morning in the bad part of town. You're already escalating the danger in your life. The, it used to be common sense in the training community, if you're afraid to go somewhere without a gun, don't go there with a gun. Like the gun shouldn't empower you, right? Just because you have a gun, it shouldn't mean you're going to go somewhere you wouldn't go. And this time of year, it's like high school graduations. People say, "Oh, I don't care if I can't carry it to high school graduation, I'm going to carry it." Well, okay. You're going to carry, except what about that rule? Like, are you too afraid to go to your kid's graduation without a gun? Because maybe you shouldn't go to that graduation. If it's that dangerous, right? Violating the law and risking losing your right to defend yourself and your family for the rest of your life potentially, probably isn't worth it. Now, you want to go to the school and say, "Hey, I want this or I have this." Or if you want to go to this school and you want to say, "Hey is there going to be armed security?" Right? We just had a high school graduation rehearsal, kid showed up and it was Dixon, Illinois. It may not be, may not be right town, but in Illinois. And one of the fathers who was a police officer who was there working, but he also had a son at the school, he intervened. He used this gun and stopped and shot the kid that was going to do the school shooting. So do you need school security? Sure. Do you need more SROs? Great. Are there police officers and armed security? I don't know. I get that part of it. But you choosing the violate the law, doesn't make a lot of sense to me. So now let's go back to the stickers. If you go into the store, even if it's not a violation of law, people look around and they see you, and I don't know if you're a really influential person in your town or nobody knows you, but when you're in that story, you are another human being, but let's say there's somebody who's on the fence about the issue. And they're like, "I don't know if I think people should be allowed to carry. I guess, but maybe not. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe people shouldn't be allowed to carry it in public." And they go to a restaurant that's always busy, always packed. And it's got that sticker in there and it says no guns, but what's the natural conclusion. "Oh, all of these people who are like me, and they're friends of mine and they live in our town, and they spend money in our town, and they're successful people. They agree with this policy of no guns." And then they go to the movie theater, and it's like, "Oh, well, I'll get all these people, all these families having a good time. They agree with the policy of no guns." And they go to the next place. "Oh, look at this. They must agree. They must be supporting this business that has the sign. Right?" So now you are participating in supporting the business that has the sign. So if you think like it's too dangerous to go in without a gun, A. don't go in. If you think, well, no, Rob, that's silly. It's not too dangerous going in without a gun, but why would I compromise my ability to protect myself? So I'm going to go in, well now you're supporting gun control. You're supporting gun free zone. Right? I had one guy get in an argument with me on the internet. "I'm not supporting it. I'm just saying, if my girlfriend goes there and she wants a coffee and that she likes that place, I go in anyway, I'm carrying. I'm not supporting it." Well, yeah, you are. What you let your girlfriend pay for her own coffee? First of all, that's, reconsider. Buy her the coffee. All right. But either talk to the management and say, "Hey, I don't agree with this policy," or go somewhere else, right? Or don't carry your gun. Because I believe in private property rights as much as I believe in second amendment rights, right? If I own a business, right? And I don't want you to come in. If I own a business that bakes cakes and I don't want to bake a cake for you, I shouldn't have to bake a cake for you. For whatever reason I don't want to bake cake for you. I didn't have to let you in if you smoke cigars or if you carry a gun if I don't want you to carry a gun. No, I wouldn't have the business set up that way. But if I had a business that it was a bar, let's say I was in Indiana. If I had a business with a bar. In Indiana, you can legally carry a gun openly and drink. I don't think that's a good idea. All right. I don't support drinking with a gun on. I don't drink with a gun on. I don't think other people should drink with a gun on. So if I were in Indiana, I might say to somebody. I wouldn't put a sign up, right? But if I saw someone openly carrying in my bar in Indiana, I would go say to the guy, "Hey, we don't allow that." And if "You're not posted." "Well, okay, I don't want you in my bar because now you're causing a disturbance." "No, I'm not." "Well, yes, you are now you're trespassing." And so I would get the guy out on a trespass if he didn't respect me as the bar, tavern, pub owner asking him to not openly carry a gun and drink, because I think A. It's irresponsible personally. I think B. it sends the wrong message about the responsibility of the armed community. So I wouldn't go off on that "I don't see the sticker thing" and leave that as policy. I carry all the time, everywhere I go. Do I think we will have a civil war over the second amendment? No, Jeff, I don't. And the fact that you're the guy saying you would break the law or violate the person's private property rights by ignoring their request not to carry a gun on their property and carried it anyway, kind of doesn't surprise me that you're the guy asking if we're going to have a civil war over the second amendment. Dry fire drills for trigger control. Lupe, listen, we just had that question asked today in class. Literally had somebody ask, you know, "Well, Rob I have," I'm going to change the, the angle here a little bit and do that, I think. What happened? I can't turn my phone while we're recording. I have no idea what that means. So I may need to go handheld here because I had to plug my phone in. So the dry fire drills for, I'm gonna have to get creative here with this stacking, dry fire drills with a trigger control. Well, here's the deal, if you're doing trigger control out of the context of defensive shooting, right? And that used to be the old thing, right? Like the old timers would talk back in the day, It was like, "Well, you should do a thousand dry reps for every time you pull the trigger on the range, right?" Like you were going to like, you're sitting around, watching The Lost Boys, just pulling the trigger or something. Right? Like I don't think you really get much of practical value if you're watching The Lost Boys, just pulling the trigger, right? You may pull on the trigger, you're getting trigger presses but they're not contextually relevant. Right? You're you're not worried about hitting something. You're not maintaining sight alignment and sight picture. You're not maintaining kinesthetic alignment. You're not dealing with recoil, obviously. There there's all kinds of reasons why, you're not anticipating recall. People who say if someone's anticipating recoil or flinching, they're worried about recoils, and they're doing that. or doing that, trying to push back against the recoil, the way to solve them of that is to get a a cert pistol and have them have them shoot a lot and learn how to press the trigger when they're not worried about it. Well, guess what? They're not worried about it. If somebody is anxious, anxiety, fearful, whatever, over recoil and the loud bang and all that stuff, they're not going to be afraid of that with photons. Right? So they're not afraid of it. It's not a physical thing they're afraid of in the sense of when they pull the trigger, they are afraid of holding the gun still and they need to move the gun. They're afraid of the noise. It's that physical. It's the stimulus that they're worried about. So they can do all you want with dry fire, right? You know, whatever you're going to, put a dime on the end of the thing, right? We got a safe direction here, let me just show you. Oh, look at that, it's clear. I'm gonna check it, that's clear. Okay. And it's a safe wall anyway. So I'm driving out. At this point, I can do this and press the trigger and put that dime up on top. Right? If I press the trigger, put the dime up on top, and oh, the dime didn't fall. Good job. Except I'm looking at the dimes to make sure they didn't fall. Right? And I'm not really worried about the gun going off. The minute you put real ammo in this and we go to a range, now what happens? I'm going to worry about the bang. So dry fire for trigger control really isn't the thing. As I mentioned earlier, one of my favorite things to do if somebody has the habit of staging the trigger, trying to make everything perfect, right, over gripping the gun or whatever and then breaking the shot, I try to get them to press right through, right? Press right through that break. So setting up a cert pistol like this with two lasers and trying to get people to get both lasers to come on at the same time for practical purposes. That's probably my favorite cert drill to do to get them to stop staging with one laser on and then breaking. To actually get them to do that at together, press through that break is one of my favorite things to do. Other than that, I really like dry fire. I didn't get the follow-up. Let's. You guys, all of earth just fell. Wow. Dry fire practice . Somebody else said that. Okay. So the best dry drills that I like are really the kind of like presentation from the holster drills. Right? If I want to practice, you know presentation to the rear, I get my startle reaction. I reach down, I get the gun, and rather than, what I'm practicing here, and this is I video right? If I were, this were a video rep, and I did this, well, now I'm going to, I covered myself. Right? I just covered my leg because my legs down here. See it, there it is. Cause my leg's down there. So what do I need to practice? I need to practice coming, and I get startled, I reach down, I come straight up. I angle the gun parallel with my thigh, and cross close to my body, and then drive out and shoot. So it's this thing that I'm practicing. Right? And if I rushed that right, and I'm surprised sometimes how many videos I see of people like inside a vehicles, for example. Good instructors, guys that I know are smart, guys I know we're generally safe, teaching guys to sit in cars, and just ignore covering themselves, covering this leg, especially out the driver's side, as opposed to coming up, turning this way and driving out. It takes like no extra time, really for practical purposes, but not covering yourself is pretty important, right? At least in the training environment. But I think in the real world, you know, not driving out and hitting the steering wheel, and not covering your leg, those things are important. So coming up and learning how to do that, and then maybe driving to the first shot, you know, thinking about where the window is or whatever and firing that first shot with the laser that can be really valuable. So I like dry fire to the first shot, and or not even dry fire, just an inert gun, practicing presentation and things like that. I think that's really good. I have absolutely no idea what time it is. Ernie, what time is it? 9:48. All right. So we're kind of winding down. Like I said, I'm going to try to see if there's a couple more questions in the comments. Springfield Armory is sponsoring a PDN live tonight Springfield Armory as part of the PDN tour this year. They're great partners. I love working with those guys, obviously Rob Latham and I have a lot of good, good times together. There's a chance that we're going to actually get together tomorrow. I'm only about an hour and 15 minutes from there. And I was just down at the factory, hanging out with those guys, doing some things last week, and I know Latham's coming into town. So I've got some things to take care of here and we're doing the CVO, what are we doing tomorrow? What's the thing we're doing? We're doing the CVO Gun Talk. CVO Gun Talk. So I'll be doing an episode of CVO Gun Talk in the studio in the radio studio here. In, where am I, Eastern Iowa tomorrow morning and tomorrow afternoon, I'm not sure, I may actually take an afternoon off for the first time in several days, or I may run over and hang out with Latham, but they're good people. They do a lot of good stuff. Obviously they got a lot of positive gun world news for completely cutting off the Dicks Sporting Goods chain after their politics. And I'm glad to have them as sponsors and they really do make a great line of guns. You know, every company has its fanboys. Every company has its detractors. Springfield is probably one of the more heated ones, you know, the famous grip zone. You know, I think they're brilliant, you know, more free free advertising out of grip zone jokes than anything else. But it's a good gun that fits a lot of people's hands. I know that I teach more than almost every instructor I know, quite frankly, in the industry. I've been teaching more classes and more people on the range than just about any instructor in the industry that I know for the last decade. So when you hear people say, "Oh, I don't know. I see a lot of those guns fail." I not only do I see a lot of those guns over a long period of time in a lot of different hands under a lot of different conditions, I also have been using those guns as loaner guns that we bought at retail. We had no connection to Springfield, we had Valhalla during the 2000s, and I use those guns now as loaner guns, and I don't clean them. I mean, they are dirty, take a look at it. This gun is, is clear. Let's just take a look, right? Random here. This is the gun that somebody was using out in the rain, I guess. So I'm a little dirty already, right? You can see how kind of ridiculously dirty this gun is. It is a well-used dirty thing. And the fact is that, do these guns start to fail? Sure. They start to fail because I abuse them, because I just hand them out to people in the rain and the dirt and the mud. And they'll start to fail at some point. And when they do, I will go ahead and and get some solvent out. I'll get some, some breakthrough, I'll get some solvent out. I'll take all this stuff off, and I'll clean it up and I'll throw some lubricant in it. And when I do that, I'll put it back into service, and we'll use it again until it stops working. So when it stops working, I'll start cleaning it. So you'll hear people say, "Oh, I was one of his classes and his loaner gum and even stopped working." Well, yeah, because look at it. This is a loaner gun and guess what's going to happen? It's going to get cleaned up. It's gonna get lubricated and go right back into service. And then eventually it'll stop working again because that's what I like to do to remind myself that it's not just because Springfield's a sponsor of the tour that I'm handing out Springfields, or that I'm keeping them on our list of companies that we recommend that people check out, I'm all dirty, that we recommend people check out in regard to viable personal defense guns. The fact that I run them until they stop working is a positive. It's not a negative. So if somebody says, "Oh, your guns stopped working and that's death, it looks bad for Springfield." Well, not if you know what the gun is. And when the students in the class see the condition the gun's in and still running, you know, until the 10,000, 12,000 rounds. I don't know how many thousands, tens of thousands of rounds, this thing probably has over 20,000 rounds through it in the last couple of years. That in and of itself is a testament to how great these guns are, and how great these guns are over a long period of time that I've seen them would be great. Of course they fail, right? And there's video of them failing and pictures of them failing. Of course it happens. And, and any gun will. If you take care of it, and you keep it lubricated, and you don't let it get like that, because my carry gun isn't that dirty, you know? It's not going to be super crazy clean, but of course my carry gun isn't that dirty because this is actually my carry gun. Let's see. Thanks again for everything you do. This weekend. Oh, Oh, Scott was in the class. Yeah. So thank you. Yeah, we did some running and moving and the rifle class is, I say people went through a rifle, it's not a marksmanship class. How much marksmanship do you need to shoot your rifle and defending your house in the bedroom or down your hallway? That's, it's home defense rifle class. It's about moving your gun and moving the gun up to your face and bringing the gun down and doing your reloads and bringing the gun back up or orienting the gun over here when you move, and maybe transitioning a hasty transition, or a full transition to what we're going to do. And it's about moving with your gun, getting into the shooting position so you can go around the kitchen island, or over the kitchen Island but under the chandelier or squatting so you only expose as little as possible over the bookshelf or whatever in your house, moving around your family, keeping the gun in close. So it's a very physical class, very much more physical than our pistol class which is much more mental. Someone says, can you share some details on the Instructor Development classes? So the Instructor Development classes are really pushing the vast majority of our Fundamental Defensive Training pistol classes for instructors over into the new USCCA program, which is, I can't tell you how excited I am to see where that's gone and how fast it's grown. You know, we've been, I think we're 13 or 14 months in. And what we didn't want to do is say, okay, here's a class, we're going to list a bunch of classes and then not have really it just be regurgitated, I.C.E. Training Company stuff, Because if it's just me and our lead instructors Barret and Deryck and Jamie and everybody teaching the same course that we've been teaching anyway with a new logo on it, then it's just kind of cheesy. This is really an evolution of the CFS or Intense Intuitive Defensive Shooting program. And the evolution is not just in, in what we're teaching, but it's how we're teaching it, and how we're in doing the instructor development. When I say that, obviously we didn't reinvent the class and we didn't just say, "Oh, well, let's make let's make changes for the sake of changes." What we did was we looked at the Intuitive Defensive Shooting program with the Combat Focus Shooting Pistol program, the Advanced Pistol Handling program, and the Defensive Firearms Coaches program which obviously were all interrelated and have the same foundational principles and just put it all together in one box. And there's institutional inertia everywhere, right? We've been doing instructor development since 2005. I've been teaching this program formally since 2003. And it really was just an evolution of stuff. We started in the 90s. So when we sat down and said, "Okay, this is a huge incredible opportunity to reach way more people than we're ever going to reach with my lack of organization at I.C.E., right?" So we had maybe 200 and something, 260 instructors that were eligible to transfer over. And that's the culmination of 12 years, 12 or 13 years of instructor development under I.C.E.. It's just, there's other things to do. I've got a million things going on and we don't run that much instructor development anyway. So if I run two or three of the five day courses a year at the most. We might run six or seven of the three day courses for DFCs. Well, now we're going to take and put that into a program where we might have a thousand instructors at the end of next year. And we're going to have hundreds real quick probably by the end of this year, but it had to be done with integrity. So we had to take everything from all the curriculums, and including a curriculum that maybe hadn't been re-examined in years, because like everyone else complacency. It's been working. It's popular. We fill classes, we have people come in and do the instructor development, you know. All that kind of all those metrics are working, so to speak. So all the metrics that are working, why change it? Well, here's why we changed it. Because we want to make it better. We make the best possible program we can. So what we did was put all that stuff in a box without any prejudice or any bias, threw it out on the ground and said, "Okay, where does this really belong?" You know, the first hour of the class, Defensive Pistol class, of course, that stays, that's where it belongs. But where does Malfunction Drills? Where does that belong? Well, long time, it's very controversial that I made this position, I took the position in the late nineties, early 2000s, that day one Defensive Pistol class should not include malfunctions, induced malfunctions, because implicitly as instructors, it should be our job to teach people that there are good, reliable guns out there, there is good reliable ammunition out there. We, we should not be telling people that it is so likely you're going to have a malfunction that you need that in the first six to eight hours of range class, you know? An eight hour class, you're gonna be five to six hours on the range. If the first five to six hours on the range, you are gonna need to know malfunctions, get a new gun. Like that's the lesson. Lesson is get a new gun, right? People get big on the internet, go ahead. You can find it. Some guy shows up with a subcompact 1911, it doesn't work. And I say, you know, the subcompact 45 1911 is very difficult to get to work at all, let alone for a long period of time. So why would I humor his bad purchasing decision or try to play along with some company's aggressive marketing, campaign and say, "Yeah, well, maybe it'll work." Or, you know, I owe him an education. Guys coming to me with money for life death stuff, right? I'm not going to humor. If he can get a subcompact Stryker fire gun, in nine millimeter, instead of 45 it's designed to work this way. Right? And it, and it works really well. And it's really reliable, then that's what I need to tell him to do. Especially if his gun is more expensive, he's not even going to lose money, doing it. Sell the gun and get the cheaper gun and the holster and the magazines and all that. So I don't think we should be teaching malfunctions on day one. Well, what that led to was we were teaching malfunctions on day three, because our two day course was very flexible that didn't include inducing malfunctions. So that's something for example, that now is on a day two. So in our, in our level two program, we teach malfunctions, because the fact is we were teaching our instructors obviously how to teach malfunction clearing and the best way at the fundamental level, but we weren't inducing the malfunctions in class. Naturally people show up with crap guns, they get malfunctions, and our instructors have to be capable of teaching them how to do it. So we were doing it in the instructor development anyway but we weren't teaching it in the class. Well, now it's a day two project. So we have level one is day one, level two is day two, level three, level four, obviously all the way through. As we've rescrambled the curriculum, we've made it better. We've made we're more practical. We've done better things for the students, better things from the instructor development standpoint for us. We're taking advantage of what USCCA has to offer in terms of their organization, right? They're incredible. As far as team building and development and supporting all those instructors all over the country. New stuff's coming online. There's a big distance education portal for the instructors to be able to go through. Obviously the books, these are the best versions of the book, making sure that that people see the graphics and the charts and all the things that we do in class. And we teach our instructors to do, we've had that happening in person, but not in the books. The books were boring and just words and black and white pictures and a couple of little sketches. So now being able to present that information differently is cool. So I appreciate somebody asking that. I think it was Robert. So that's really exciting that that program is finally, people are getting it. You know, we had, like I said, we had 50 students go through this last weekend and we've got another bunch of classes coming up in July. Dustin, I don't know what you're doing. Hi, Todd. I got to come see you in Southern Illinois. Average responsible gun owner due to stem the tide of the cool thing being anti-gun. Yeah. I don't know. I don't care. Like, like why would, I mean, flat brimmed hats, I'm more concerned about flat brimmed hats being cool. Not anti-gun being cool. Guns, it's always been in some circles, cool to be anti-gun. I'll tell you what a lot of places I go, I see people, they find out I'm the gun guy, or I pull up with the tour truck and they see the logos, and they kind of look around and they're like, I have a gun. Are you, I heard you were into guns. You know, your buddy, we're at a dinner party, your buddy said, you're the gun guy, you travel around and teach guns. I got a gun in my closet or my dad left me a gun. Or I've been thinking about getting my permit. I think it may not be cool to be overtly pro-gun, but there's a lot of cool guys who are very pro gun. They just need to see us not being, "Oh, you're a liberal. I'm not going to talk to you." I don't even know what that means. Like I'm socially liberal, right? So am I liberal? I'm pretty pro gun, right? Is if you say things like, "Oh, no real liberal could really be pro-gun. No Democrat could really be pro gun," you're not helping. That's what makes it cool to be anti-gun publicly, because they look around and they say, "Well, it looks like all the gun owners are kind of like socially ignorant people." If they think only socially conservative Republicans are gun owners or pro gun or think we should have all of our gun rights intact. So I think that's how we change it. We make it obvious that there are a lot of people who aren't, you know, stuck in 1953's version of Gun Owner World. There's a lot of what David Humani calls Gun Culture 2.0. We make it appealing. We make it interesting. We make it open. We make it not open like, you know, some kind of quota system, but open, like look at who's on the range. Look at my social media feed. Look at who shows up to our classes. Look at the demographics, right? It's a wide variety of people. It's cool people. It's not just boring people who attend class. I'm gonna take one more question here. I took the instructor course in March, here in Iowa. Oh, the DFC program. Chris, do you know? You know, you know Chris? Absolutely. Okay. So you must have taken it here with Ernie. So yeah, if you took the DFC course, I don't even know who taught that one. But yeah, that's the kind of thing, Chris, what you took is the basis, the three-day Defensive Firearms Coaches course is the basis of the new USCCA program. So that's cool. Any idea when you have a class in Nebraska? I wanted to have one literally next week. I had an opportunity on Monday to have a class over there and we were trying to get it set up but it did not come to fruition. So I know we're working with a potential host, but it's narrow, right? Like the window of me being in Iowa, and then my daughter, Baby Pink, you've probably seen her on Instagram if you follow my feed, you've seen pictures of her. She turns three on June 22nd. So I finished up here in Iowa on the 17th, Father's Day, and I'm going to drive home very fast that night. I'll cut across to the west to get back to Denver and to the Western HQ and hang out with her for a few days. So that's why I'm not doing a class in Nebraska, because apparently we couldn't make it fit into that like 18th or 19th window. So I'm heading out. Our Shotgun Shooters and LFG club will enjoy shooting with you tomorrow. Oh yeah. So I am Todd, that's right. I'm doing a, I don't even know is that a charity thing? What is this thing tomorrow night? It's for their youth shooting program. Yeah, so to support the youth shooting programs at the North Linn Fish and Game, if you're anywhere near Cedar Rapids, Iowa, I'm going to be up there tomorrow. What time it start, like four? 5:00 PM. 5:00 PM. Yeah. So that was why I said I have that window of opportunity. I may go hang out with Nathan, but I'm going to be at that event. And I'm actually, I haven't shot clays in I don't even know how long. Literally, oh, that's not true. Wait, in February, I shot a round of clays with Deryck Poole down in Florida at a great facility where we were teaching a handgun class. They had an amazing sporting clays field. We shot some five stands. So I've been warming up. I think it was, I've warmed up six months ago. You guys are all in trouble, but come out to the North Linn Fish and Game Club if you're in Iowa. Mike taught. Mike McElmeal. He taught the DFC course and Mike is a 18 Zulu. He's one of our retired military guys, special operations background. And he teaches the CFS program, teaches the DFC program teaches a rifle program all based here out of Cedar Valley Outfitters. And he also is a, a medical guy. So he teaches a great medical course which is also incredibly important. So thank you, Robert. I will be signing off here in just a minute. Once again sorry for the technical difficulties with the YouTubes that we normally do this. I imagine we back on YouTube with the Google hangout. I personally, I enjoy it this way. I like to see the direct interaction. Having Shannon there or Sam doing the filtering of the questions really helps as far as the questions that you guys submitted before this week. And so if you weren't, if you're watching live, but you didn't join in the comments to, re-ask your question, I'm sorry, not sorry. I don't know, but we'll try to make sure we get back into the normal flow next time, or we'll just announce, Hey you know what? We're going to do it this way from now on. So we'll see. PDN gold members. If you're a PDN member on our newsletter. Awesome. You know what that's all about. It's free premium members get a lot more content. Gold members, you've got our special Facebook group. I'm actually going to head over there now, and potentially check in, do a little live over there, see who's was around. And if you're not a PDN gold member, think about it, especially if you want, or you're interested in any of those online classes. We do the PDN gold members, I think the best benefit of that is the free classes that come with it free at PDN Academy. And then the discount you get on any other online PDN Academy classes you want to take. And then obviously the access at our private Facebook group and whatever else we can do to help out. So thanks for watching tonight. Thanks for watching whenever you watch this, if you watch the recorded version and a PDN live either on Facebook or YouTube through Google Hangouts, will be back in July Take care.