Sheepdogs by Lt. Col. Dave Grossman

I'm here with I'm here with Col. Dave Grossman. I wanna talk to you for a minute about your work and value in the printed word. What you've brought to the community and what you've brought to our nation's warriors and to our nation's Sheepdogs, the citizens who are prepared to defend themselves, is just an amazing body of work. I'm going all the way back to the mid '90s with on killing, going through on combat, which I think as a trainer, as a teacher, has been one of the greatest resources for me and for my peers.

And now you've got a new book, "Sheepdogs", which is really amazing, and I wanna talk in detail about that. But give everybody that may not be familiar with the history of your books just a quick overview of "On Killing" and "On Combat". In 1995, "On Killing" came out, Pulitzer-nominated, and we talked about how to get the average soldier throughout history to kill was kinda hard, and you can really track history as a series of ever better ways to empower people to kill. And how in modern years we've gotten very good with conditioned responses and pop-up targets, and how it feels to kill, how people respond to killing. What we did to the Vietnam veteran, by sending them to kill and then bringing them back and condemning them.

And really a national shame that we've made up for with this new generation of veterans. But in the final section, 1995, two years before Jonesboro, three years before Columbine, I said by the way, the video games are doing the exact same thing to kids that the military does to adults with discipline. And when the Jonesboro Massacre happened in my hometown, we thought it was my son's school when we first heard about it. I was out there and I've been with all of these ever since. and it's really sunk home.

But we talk about the dynamics of killing still Marine Corps. Commandant's acquired reading, FBI Academy acquired reading, but as I began to teach on this topic, it was a constant interactive feedback loop. I've been in the road for over 15 years, almost 300 days a year. I have a deep sense of urgency. I believe whatever we're called to do or whatever blessing we must do the utmost of our ability.

I love my bride of 38 years. My high school sweetheart. I love my grandchildren. I'm home one, maybe two nights a week, conjugal visit, clean underwear, back on the road. I really have this deep sense of urgency to give a hundred percent.

But, during this process of presenting, it's a constant, interactive feedback loop. Every day, I talked to several people who've been in combat, gunfights, police shootings, military situations, and it's a constant reinforcing feedback loop. So finally in 2002, we took that process and came out with a book "On Combat". It's now in its fourth edition, we've updated it with added more info to it. We're in a revised edition of "On Killing" now, we've updated that, and they really represent the quarter.

And I agree with you, if somebody is going to read one book "On Combat", someone I'd want them to read them. Issued in the DA Academy, bring court commoners acquired reading, On this I disagree. they like "On Killing" first and that don't hurt my feelings, but, I'm with you. I think that for our listeners, we're gonna start with and go down with "On Killing" having read them in sequence. If you're going to start with one, just cut to the chase with "On Combat" wanna read them in sequence, you're gonna read them in sequence, "On Killing" and then go to "On Combat".

And we've been able to touch a lot of lives with these books translated in a dozen languages now. We've been able to touch a lot of lives and of course the whole Sheepdog model. Well we talked about the Sheepdog and "On Killing". Then we did a whole chapter on the Sheepdog and "On Combat" that has become legendary. It's just floated around the internet.

It's become a perennial. People, use it to, for a variety of different places. Cops use it so their spouse understand who they are and why they do it. The Sheepdog piece out of "On Combat" has become a legendary. It's the most, most traction I've ever gained with anything I've ever written.

And then we come up with a new book in which we took the Sheep, the Wolf, the Sheepdog, and we turned it into a children's book. And this is on the surface, people would say, why would you, you wrote "On Killing", you wrote "On Combat", and you wrote a children's book. Yeah But how important is this? I think it may be the most important book I've ever written. In the back of the book is the original Sheepdog piece.

And a lot of people find it a great value, just for that alone. We pass those around. We've got it. You can read it. You can understand it.

It has become one of the most powerful concepts, but from the very beginning, even the cover, let me show you something here, This is a photograph of a young, Iraqi boy, and you see, there's been a bomb going off the left of the screen and some of it fire into the crowd. Look at the Sheepdog. Look, this soldier, head erect, striding towards the sound of the guns. Look around the little boy back there, terror in his face, terror. Here's the exact same scene, a split second later, fast as the Cameron Cook can click the shutter.

Here they are. The flock is in full stampede. The Sheepdog is striding toward the sound of the guns. And that little boy, he ain't no fool, he knows it's cover when he sees it. The Sheep, the Wolf lives to destroy, the Sheepdog lives to protect.

The Wolf says, "might makes right", the Sheepdog says, "my loan is my strength and compassion is not weakness." People say, "Ah that you're going to be over there they're just like us. They're just on the other side, bull, one man's freedom fighters, is another man's terrorist. They're no different than us, bull." Our enemy will use children as human shields. The American warrior is a human shield for children. That's all the difference in the world.

So we begin with the cover, which is the really, that photograph of the little Iraqi boy hiding behind the American soldier. And it personifies the whole concept that the Wolf were used in children's human shields. But the Sheepdog is a human shield for the innocent. And we, talk about the book and it opens with a poem of mine that has become very popular. It says, "Fear not the night, fear that which walks the night.

And I am that which walks the night, but only evil need fear me and gentle souls sleep safe in their beds because I walk the night." Carpe Noctem, Seize the Night. Any fool concedes today we seize the night. My little grandson and I, I'm only home one or two nights a week. My little oldest grandchild is 11 now, ever since the little guy was three, we go for a walk in the park. We're from Arkansas.

It's hot. We're usually out there late, on Saturday night, when it finally cools off. It's pitch black. But I got to get outside after a lifetime in the woods and the desert and the jungle. I miss being out of it.

I've had one sick day in 15 years, I'm doing what I'm supposed to do, but I miss being outside, just got to get out. A gravel track around the Lake, outside of town. It's pitch-black never been a violent crime there. But one night we walk around this Lake it's pitch-black singing and talking. And he says, "Grandpa, it dark." Like he just now discovered.

I told him that the dark can be your friend, teaching come from the dark. Of course, I've got a gun. When I'm out on the road I can't always carry one. When I'm with my grandchildren, I'd rather walk out that door naked and alone, be at my grand babies without the tools to protect them. Of course, I've got a gun.

I got a blade. I got a big old German Shepherd we'll walk in the dark. He says, "Grandpa they're scary things in the night." I said, "Yeah, it's us." You as my grandson. They're scary things in the night. He says, "Yeah, it's us." And that really was the core of this poem to understand that we are the things that the things go bump at night fear.

We are the things that the critter under the bed fears. So we talk about the fact that there are Sheep and they're good kind, decent people. And then there are Wolves, and the Wolf will feed on the Sheep. And my little granddaughter loves..., "Go back and look over there." And then we'd talk about how this is important. I can tell you how many people told me, all my life I thought, that's there's something wrong with me.

All my life, I thought I was a Wolf, and people said, there's something wrong with me. I'm not a Wolf. I would never harm the Lambs. I'm a Sheepdog. And it's like this epiphany.

For them to realize there's nothing wrong with them. And when we say here, when they were young, some Sheepdogs thought there was something wrong with them. These young pups thought they would grow into Wolves. The difference was these pups knew in their hearts, that they would never harm the lambs. It was a special day, when they realized they were Sheepdogs, just like the story of the Ugly Duckling, grew up to be a beautiful swan.

And we talked about how they've got a train and how they've got to be away from home and protect the innocent. and then we talked about how the Wolf will use the lambs as human shields, but that Sheepdog is a human shield for the lambs. And this is kinda deep. We talk about how the Sheepdog brings a light to the dark places on all the sphere they go and there'll be away from home, and they'll miss meals. and they may have to travel to distant lands, to hunt the Wolf.

And they're at sea and they protect our coastlines. and the Wolf says, "Might makes right." The Sheepdog says, "Might alone is not strength." And compassion is not weakness. The Sheepdog lives to protect. And did you know some Sheepdogs don't even wear uniforms. It could be moms and dads, teachers, or regular folks at regular jobs.

They're prepared to confront the Wolf and protect those around him. like nine 11. And when American Sheepdogs began to woke up with let's roll. And we said, something very important here, the Sheep will die to protect the ones they love. Only the Sheepdog loves enough, to die for other people's loved ones.

But that doesn't make them heroes, their heroes gets to walk out the door every day, prepared to lay down their life. Greater love has no one than this to give their life for their friends. Being a hero to Sheepdog is not a flash of courage. It's a lifetime of sacrifice. Sometimes the ultimate love, is not to sacrifice your life, but to live a life of sacrifice.

And that's really what the book's all about. We go on to say that in nature, they're born that way. But humans can be anything they wanna be, and have you got what it takes to be a Sheepdog? But it comes down to the heart of the matter that for most of us, the ultimate love is not to sacrifice your life, but to live a life of sacrifice. To place the welfare of others, to place the welfare of others ahead of your own.

To walk out the door of a day of your life. To carry the life saving tools, to live in a state of readiness at that moment of truth. When our nation and our family and our loved ones need us. With courage and honor, training, skill. I'll tell you what, I know that the powerful message that's contained in that book is gonna change lives.

The information that you've provided, in the past has been incredibly important. Like the power in that book, not just for kids, it probably for a lot of parents that will read it also is incredibly important. So I just want it for myself, certainly from the training community and on the armed community in American, probably our entire country. Thank you very much. Where can people get the new book?

Sheepdogbook.com Sheepdogbook.com, Sheepdogbook.com. that's the place for that resource. You can find these all over the internet and bookstores all around the country. Sir, thank you very much. It's been an honor.