PDN Training Talk: Gifting Firearms - A Guide to Responsibly Sharing the Tradition with Youth and Loved Ones

Awesome. Welcome to the show December. Last Show of the Year, man. It's a, it's another year, 2023 has gone by, man. That's where, you know, new year coming and all. I think about when everybody's like, oh, we got a new year coming. I'm thinking, yep. And I'm gonna be a year older really soon afterwards. I guess at some point you just stop, stop counting those years. Right. Just let me go past everything going well with you. Yeah. I mean, other than, you know, it's Florida and we're getting a cold spell which it is never fun. And then we, we got all our snowbirds here and they're like, well, you know, we didn't get it, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. I'm like, well, I didn't move to Indiana. I moved to Florida because I don't want the cold. So I don't care. It's minus 30 in Indiana. I don't want 50 in Florida. Yeah, definitely. So, definitely. So I'm just sitting there making sure that this has gone out the way that it is supposed to here here. I'm gonna, yeah, we're up, I just wanna make sure that we're up, but Yeah, we're up. So I'm gonna send you this link. Um, I don't know, you got a way to share it with everybody. Um, it's for, uh, you know, PDN. We do that 12 days of drills for around Christmas and the holidays, send it over at some point. You know, I'll figure out how to try to share a link here in a minute. Did you get it? I sent it on our little chat window here. Uh Let me go check it. I've got too many boxes going on someone. Yep, I got it. Cool. Uh a while we're talking at some point, we'll uh bring that up when I have the ability to go ahead and uh, and stick it up on the screen. But what I will do is uh drop it into some of the uh comments real quick, you know, as we're kind of going around as we are getting it all set up, everyone. Uh Welcome to uh the show. We should have a good conversation tonight when it comes to uh gifting firearms to a family as we're hitting the uh Christmas season. You know, if y'all are tuning in live with us, uh be sure to let us know uh where you're tuning in from or your comments or questions uh throughout the show. But yeah, I will definitely get that link up. Uh The P DNS got some special stuff with drills going on right now, so I'll get that link posted here, uh, in a couple of minutes. So, yeah, officially the show is gonna be all about gifting firearms. Uh, have you ever, have you ever gifted a gun, Derek? Have I Yes to my wife. All right. There you go. Yeah. You know, I've got kids. So, you know, at this point, uh, there, there's been several, uh, that, you know, have been a part of a gift but, you know, it's, uh right now, you know, coming into the Christmas time, you know, we know that a lot of people will be out shopping for firearms for the purpose of sticking it underneath the tree, you know, for someone else, you know, maybe it's a loved one like yourself or maybe it's more like me uh as gifting to my kids. How about y'all watching, you know, if you all gifted firearms, who you, who have you gifted firearms to, we'll try to make sure we're paying attention to all of the uh different comment zones on the different channels and whatnot. Uh Now I was gifted a firearm. Were you when you were a little kid? Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah, definitely. Um Yeah, I, I can't remember exactly how old I was when I got officially, you know, my first gun. Uh meaning that, you know, it wasn't something that I was just borrowing from my dad's, there wasn't really the hand me down or it wasn't something I had access to, but officially, you know, gifted a firearm and, you know, it's, uh, my first gun, uh, was a, a Winchester Pump, uh, 20 gauge. It was actually a Ducks Unlimited, you know, special edition gun, a youth model. Uh, that I still love to today and, you know, that thing got so many miles on it, you know, shot plenty of, uh, birds and animals and stuff and got a lot of great use out of it. But I, for whatever reason I just ii, I can't remember my age. Uh you know, I know that I got a 12 gauge uh at, at my 12 Christmas. And so, you know, it was probably, I don't know, sometime around nine or 10 years old or something like that. Well, my dad gifted me the 12, I mean, the 20 gauge and you were 1212 and a couple of days old when you realize how much a 12 gauge can punch you in the shoulder. I had already shot a 12 gauge prior to that. But yeah. Yeah. No, definitely. It, it's uh, yeah, one of my first memories with a 12 gauge was a friend of mine's dad. Uh He had, you know what we called at the time, like a riot gun or something like that, right? Just an early model with, you know, pistol grips on it that held unlimited shotgun shells and yeah, and that's, that was sweet. He would refer to it as, as the riot gun or the street sweeper. And, you know, and, and again, I was probably, you know, 1011, 12 years old kind of in that, in that zone. And, uh, I used to love going to this guy's house because it had so much property. It was just, it was a boy playground. There's, you know, motorcycles and mopeds and, you know, vehicles, whatever. We just had so much fun. But his dad, you know, when he's always running around the property, he always carried around that shotgun and, you know, I remember that, you know, him and I were like, oh, I wanna shoot it, I wanna shoot it, I wanna shoot it. You know, he, he made us lean up against a tree, you know, it made us lean up against a tree expecting it to, you know, to knock us over or something. Right? Uh But yeah, that's one of my early memories, uh, you know, with those kind of, uh, guns. How about you? What you receive? Uh, my first one actually I gave it to you to give your voice. That was my first pistol. Uh, an H and R uh 22 target pistol. I got that when I was six years old. Uh, now, you know, it was given to me, but I, I didn't get free rein right though until I wanna say I was 88 or nine. Like we lived on a farm when I was real little. We, we lived on a five acre farm and, you know, my dad taught me gun safety and all that other stuff and, you know, there were snakes and stuff like that. I was allowed to carry it around. Um, at first I wasn't allowed to carry it around loaded because my dad's rule was that gun does not come out of the holster unless I'm with you, you know, or a snake or something like that. And I think he sort of tested me for a while because he, like, put it in the holster, put the holster. Well, you've seen the guy, it's way too big for a little, a little six year old, seven year old to, like, run around the, the property with, I mean, I think was like, probably down to my kneecap at the time from like my waist and my kneecap and pulling my pants down. And, uh, you know, and then at some point I, I know at some point he did load it and let me carry it around because I proved that I was responsible enough to pay to, to follow the rules because one time we were down near the barn and, uh, he was like, he's like, hey, I, there was something sitting over on one of the fences and he was like, he goes, I bet you can't cheat that off the fence. And I was like, can I take it out? And he goes, yeah. And I took it out and it actually fired. So at some point along the line, there was, he did put ammo in it for me or maybe it was just that day because at the end of the day I took it off and handed it to him and it went and got put away like it wasn't like something that slept, that I slept with or anything like that. And my first rifle, my grandfather left taught me to shoot that. And I was a little kid. I was probably five or six. I didn't get that rifle given to me though until my, my grandfather passed away. And uh I still have it in my safe. It was a model 1019, it was built in, manufactured in 1927 or something like that hexagonal pump action. I was gonna bring up the uh the, the break action, you know, revolver. Uh you know, because yeah, it's, I love the fact that you got it at six years old. And now my kids, you know, are, are at the gun range and they're getting opportunities to shoot it and enjoy it, you know. So that guns, I'm not gonna tell everybody how old you are, but at least 30 something years. So, so for uh 47 years, you know, that gun's been around uh from your hands all the way down to my boy. So I think that's uh super cool. Yeah, and that's what I grew up on you know, prior to having the shotguns was all, you know, 22 rifles mainly and stuff. We spent a lot of time with those. Uh, but, you know, again, you know, didn't have, didn't have free range to them, didn't have access to them. It's like when we were shooting them, they, they came out, I'd have the opportunity to shoot them and stuff. But, you know, with the shotguns, I was actually at that point, um, you know, I think, uh, it must have given it to me at the same time but had kind of some sort of wooden rack, you know, on the wall, uh, that, uh, you know, that those kind of hung in still, you know, wasn't allowed to come off the gun rack, you know, without, uh, obvious permission and stuff, you know, but those, I did have a little bit more access to them, but we grew up in a neighborhood so I didn't have really the ability to, to shoot in the backyard per se. But it was so strange, you know, even living in a neighborhood at 12 years old, you know, I would take that 12 gauge, you know, and walk down the street from my neighborhood, you know, about a mile away into woods and, you know, I use those woods all through my early years in youth, you know, hunting squirrels and rabbits and, you know, attempting deer and that kind of stuff all through there. And it was interesting that, you know, even living where I like looking back at it, I'm like, man, I can't believe that I never ran into issues with it, but it was just accepted, you know, it was, it wasn't a big deal at that point. So I like, I swear, I went to public high school for one year and I swear, I, I remember guys running around like, with pickup trucks like that were seniors and stuff and like shotguns sitting in the, in the rack in pickup trucks. I mean, it was my junior year, it was my junior year in high school when the high school announced that we could not do that anymore. You know, having II I was country, right. You know, so I grew up at a really country school and, uh, and it was, it was kind of the norm, you know, a lot of us had the guns in the car because we used them before school, used them after school hunting and stuff. But yeah, it was my junior year that, you know, something happened. I don't know if one got stolen or something like that, but they were like, absolutely, you know, you cannot have them on display anymore and there wasn't a problem having them in the car, you know, just literally they, they could not be visible for the world to see. And, you know, again, you know, times have changed. I couldn't imagine leaving a firearm. On display right now in the back of my window of my truck. You know, how, how long would it take for that to get stolen? I know. Uh, I don't know. It's, it's crazy how, how times have changed like that, you know? Yeah, definitely have, uh, you know, somebody, uh, posted a comment, you know, he said that, uh, they, since they live in Texas, his, uh, son's gonna automatically gets his guns when he pass. But then he asks, you know, he's got a question. Should I put them in a trust to him? You know? But ultimately, you know, that really is more of a legal crap question. And, you know, Derek and I, uh, what aren't attorneys and don't have the ability to give legal advice? It definitely, you know, a trust attorney would be the best one to answer that question and guide you upon that. You know, I'm sure that there's definitely some, some pros and cons, you know, to, uh, the benefits of having a trust, but here I'll give you a link, um, on PDN King Crawford actually, you know, because him working in, in Reno, they do a lot of gun trust. So, uh, he actually did a full article on personal defense network on setting up gun trusts and N fa regulations and, uh, compliance with local and federal laws and stuff like that. Um, so you drop it in the chat room. Uh, I, I don't have access to actually just at the bottom you can choose to sign in as a guest. So Mike's on there, Mike asked that question. Ok, here we go. Here we go. Uh, and we can, you can drop that in the other, uh, pages as well or I'll copy it once you do. But there you go. Yeah, I mean, there are definitely, you know, some, some strong benefits to it. Actually just had one of my, uh, friends call me today, you know, pretty much asking that, that same question or, you know, who to use and whatnot. Yeah, I like, I have a trust set up but not specifically for my guns. I really wonder, like, if that's like a, if that's, I guess that I've talked to my attorney but like, is that an addendum? I'd add to my existing trust because, like, I have, like, my house and vehicles and stuff like that and trust and like, assets, other assets in trust. Yeah, definitely. You'd have to ask him, you know, uh, on the ability to be able to, you know, add new items into it. There's a lot of the trust are set up, uh, to where you do have the benefit of, uh, you know, modifying it along the way and whatnot. Adding different stuff. I will say this. Um, my uncle, uh, he, like, so when my grandfather passed away, um, that 22 that I learned to shoot on, my uncle had actually bought it for my grandfather as a present way back in the, I don't know, thirties, forties, something like that. And, uh, when he passed away, my uncle actually wanted the rifle at first to shoot like varmints in his, his, uh, garden because he lived, like, in the, in a rural area. And, uh, my dad was like, oh, I'd really like to give that to Derek. Um, this was when I was in the Marine Corps. And, uh, my dad's like, how about if I buy you a new gun? So my dad bought my uncle a new 22 rifle, um, to replace that one so I could get the, the one for just nostalgia reasons when my uncle passed, he actually in his will left that gun to me and to get it. Um, the guy that was executor of my uncle's uh uh estate is his nephew up in Virginia. All it was, was he he as the executor? He just said, hey, I need an FFL. He just shipped it down through an FFLFFL. Got it here in Florida. I went and did my normal, you know, uh 4473 form background check. Boom. And like now I have that gun sitting in my seat. So, yeah, I don't, I don't know, like maybe a trust is more if you have N fa type items. Well, I mean, definitely, you know, I mean, you, you already said it though, right? Is that you know, you've got some of your, let's see, this name is already in use, uh trying to pull up truck and share stuff online. But I mean, you've got currently, you know, a house and other assets and that kind of stuff in there. Hopefully everybody else is not seeing what I'm seeing right now, but I bet you they are trying to add overlay the my browser to kind of share some of the stuff live on the screen. Um But yeah, I mean, there's definite benefits to it, you know, I, I didn't go the trust route on uh N fa items. I kinda, you know, wish that I could go back and change that without, you know, dropping another transfer fee on each of the items that I own. But I actually, you know, ended up going a corporation route which I felt was at the time was best and in theory may be more easily transferable. Uh But I think that in theory may have gone out the window. Uh, you know, I don't know how that is now. Yeah. Yeah, way outside my room. Yeah, mine too. Definitely mine as well. Uh And that kind of brings up another question, not that somebody else is asking it, but I know that I've, you know, ultimately have had it in, you know, my mind, you know, at different points in times because I think that there's been some uh issues with it kind of going back and forth. Uh, but can you even gift guns to someone else? Right. That's a legitimate question. Is that considered a straw purchase, right? A straw purchase is, you know, when, you know, you, ultimately, most people watching this are probably gonna know that, but it would be illegal, uh, you know, for me to do something like give Derek money and say, hey, Derek, why don't you go buy that gun for me? And he brings it back to me, right? You know, uh be violating all kind of laws at that point. Uh, but uh, the, you know, but uh, when it comes to purchasing and not having that, that, that transfer of money, you know, can I do something like buy a firearm with the intended purpose on giving that gun to someone else? You know, whether it's a spouse or a child or any of that kind of stuff. And again, you know, we're not attorneys so we can't give legal advice. But what I can do is read the A TF website. And so what the A TF website says about this is that, uh, the question is, may a parent or guardian purchase firearms or ammunition as a gift? In this case, they talk about for a juvenile, less than 18 years of age and, and the answer is yes. However, persons less than 18 years of age may only receive or possess handguns with written permission of a parent or guardian for limited purposes, you know, employment, ranching, farming, target, practice, hunting, that kind of stuff. And, you know, I'm sure Florida has some laws that, that come into play on this. I know Louisiana does as well and we kind of fall back to the, uh, written permission aspect, uh, when it comes to juvenile possession. Yeah. But does it say how to answer the question? Right. Because the question like you, I'll reiterate. It just says, are you the actual transferee slash buyer of the firearm listed on the form? An answer of no there. So you're buying it for your wife or you're buying it for your kid as a president or whatever? Like if you answer no, it's an automatic denial on that 4473. So you have to answer yes. But does it give you any more clarification from that? A TF uh fa Q on like, how does that, how is that all of a sudden? Not because if you say, you know what I mean? Like if you say yes to that answer and you know, you're gifting it. How is yes, not making a false statement on a federal form and you, you're going above my knowledge, you know, I know mine too. That's why I'm asking like, you know, it's like that, that's kind of the, you know, the, the sketchy part because, you know, it's um, ok, so I'm, I'm trying to read the 4473 form. Well, keep talking. Oh, yeah, I was, that was the one I was. Yeah, I mean, there's a bunch of them nowadays, um, you know, with the, the laws with, uh, each individual state has their own marijuana laws, you know? But there's still a marijuana question on the Like, are you a habitual user of illegal substances or something? Along that lines? I think now, even the 4473 uh explicitly states uh including marijuana, um because this is still uh illegal under federal law. Yeah. No, it's definitely uh my full understanding of the, even, like all the, you know, medicinal prescriptions and stuff you got to choose, you know, do you want the guns? Do you want the weed? And, you know, you don't get both. And so, you know, this is not uh directly off the rock. I mean, the uh a TF website, uh this is actually from Rocket ffl.com. They've got a whole, you know, blog post on gifting firearms, but he's, he's quoting the instructions from the 4473. And so I'd certainly want to read the 4473 as well just to make sure any of this is up to date or accurate. Uh But it says that in the instructions on the 4473, it does uh give you the ability to purchase a firearm as a gift if two elements are true. One is you're the actual purchaser, uh meaning that, that somebody didn't give you the money to buy it for you to turn around and gift it to them. Right. They can't be involved monetarily in it. And the second point is you have no reason to believe that the intended person is a prohibited person. And so, you know, and again, uh, you want legal advice from an attorney, I'm just reading a website off of this. Uh, but, uh, you know, but yeah, the my understanding is that right is that, you know, that you are able uh to uh make those uh transactions as a gift when it truly is a gift. And I mean, like buying a, a gun for like your spouse, like if it's for your spouse most 99.9% of the time you, you co habitate. So, you know, the guns in the house, you know, so it's, they're not gonna get in trouble if they decide they're going to the range without you and pick up you like the gun, you didn't buy them for Christmas and take it to the range. Exactly. That's not legal advice because like, I know there's a bunch of states that aren't as gun friendly as Florida. So, you know, like in some other state where you have like a card that says you're legal to buy guns and here's the guns you own, you know, maybe it's probably, you're right. You're exactly right. You know, is that if you have to have that, that license to possess. Then I would imagine in those states, you, you know, and maybe some of y'all live in one of those states. All right, like Illinois, that Illinois, uh, is one of those states, if you live in one of those states where you do have to have a, a license or a permit to be able to possess and, and transfer that firearm to you, then, you know, fill that in. Do you know if your state also has laws that would prevent you from being able to gift a firearm? You know, whether it was to your spouse or, you know, a juvenile child or something like that. So if y'all got more information than Derek and I, you know, drop that in the comments and we'll definitely take a look at it. Yeah, because like I, I wanna say New York, I remember, I thought I remembered Rob telling us a story one time. Uh, he was running a gun class in one of the New York Rangers and uh that range required one of their Rs Os to be on his range. And as the students were coming into the bay to check in that that person, the employee was literally asking for their card looking at their card flipping it over and comparing like what they were, what they looking at the serial numbers down the list. No. Exactly. Right. You know, it's, uh, we get kind of comfortable living in a couple of states where we don't have all of that additional stuff to deal with. Yeah. All right. So let's talk about actually gifting gifting guns and, you know, it's like we've got different, I guess aspects of it. Uh, if, let's talk with about juveniles, first kids, you know, if we're thinking about gifting a firearm to a child, if, if you had, you know, your random cousin or something and says, oh, Derek, I can't wait. You know, my, my, my son, my daughter's turning, you know, whatever age you year old, you know, and, and I want to purchase uh their first firearm, you know, to be able to get them involved when, when they come to you and, and say that just out of excitement, they may maybe, maybe they're not even asking for your opinion or advice on that. But what goes through your mind at that point, you know, somebody's wanting to buy a gun for a 10 year old. Hopefully they are thinking of the context that, that 10 year old is going to get a coin of the shooting in like they don't need to be going out buying a defensive caliber full size, you know, like buying something that's gonna fit most likely a smaller hand and then have a recoil that's, you know, not obnoxious to like, be uncomfortable so that the kid doesn't wanna even practice and shoot or, you know, it's, it's gonna be no fun. Right. Yeah. And that's like, I remember the first time I shot a 12 gauge and, and if my dad hadn't been like this in the middle of my back, I would have been one of those, uh, youtube wasn't a thing at the time. So those of us watching back in the day there was this thing where you couldn't watch Barrett and I like this and it was called No Internet but had his hand not been in the middle of my back. I would have been like one of those big fail videos that you see people shooting shot, like, you know, the big guns, like he's literally his hand was in the middle of my back holding me up when I pulled the trigger on that 12 gauge. And it was, it had bird shot or like a turkey load or something. It wasn't a whole lot of shot, like a whole lot of powder in that shell and it still gave me a good wallet. Yeah. No, definitely. It, it's one of my pet peeves when I show up at gun ranges and, and, and look, and it's like, I hate it but you see the, the excitement of the parents and the kids out there at the range and all of a sudden they're shooting something that while even the child may be even enjoying it. I'll, I just know that it's, it's creating bad habits and hurting them in the long run and, and so, yeah, I think that, you know, it comes down to the guns, the guns need to appropriate fit, you know, the individual and the caliber, I mean, it's, uh, uh, for, to me, you know, it's like I started my kids on 22 long rifle and that's what they shot for years, you know, for a couple of years and, you know, at some point I had them on a, uh, you know, my older one was shooting a nine millimeter pistol caliber car beam just simply because it was suppressed, it was quiet and it, you know, got him used to the ergonomics and whatnot, you know, of, uh, of the gun. Uh, but even before I took him hunting, you know, last year, you know, I started hunting with deer and, and hogs and that kind of stuff. But even on that, you know, I, I just, I had them putting rounds down range rounds, down range rounds down range, you know, where, uh, I was, you know, comfortable and, and not really comfortable, but I was confident that they were going to be able to deliver the rounds where I expected them to when it came to actually shooting the animals, you know, but it's, uh, I didn't start them off on hunting calibers. I started them off on 22 long rifle and, you know, and, and with a firearm that I custom tailored to make sure that it fit them you know, where it was gonna be safe for them, you know, to be able to handle it. And so ultimately, you know, I wanted to create shooters and I want my kids to, you know, to, uh be able to, you know, as they are growing up and I want them to be able to outshoot everybody else around them. Right. And, and so I think that the, the first guns that are getting chosen really kind of come down to that. So, you know, it's, it's not the gun for the parent, you're buying the gun, you know, specifically in this case, we're talking about, uh for, you know, for the loved one for the child. Uh, but yeah, I mean, my, my 12 year old, I guess he was 11 at the time but, you know, I had him, uh shooting, you know, steel plates out at 500 yards, you know, a few months ago and it's like, um, you can do that. I can do that. Plenty of people can, but I also know that, uh most people at the gun range that day aren't gonna be able to do that the way he, you know, hit every single one every single time. And it's a lot of fun man. That little ding is such a dopamine spike. I don't care if you're 53 or if you're 12 like that ding is like dopamine spike. Weller. No, no, true fact, true fact, you know, shooting steel is a lot of fun. Right. And like, a lot of people like that are, that know me because I teach and stuff like that are like, do you ever have fun with guns? And I'm like, oh, yeah, I'm like, you get me Barrett Rob and the other, like, Omari and, like, Jason and Jeff and, like, get us all together and it turns into one big, like, let's have some fun with gun time and true fact, you know, because shooting guns should be fun. So, like, you're gonna give it to a kid, you know, you want them to be, you want to teach them, you know, proper safety right out of the gate, you know, respect for the gun, what it can and can't do, um, you know, things like that, but like, it's, it ultimately shooting is fun and it should be fun, you know, like when you're going out, you know, to the range, even, even defensive training can be fun if you're doing it right and be legit, defensive training because I never had any of my students leave my range going man. Defensive shooting is the most boring thing in the world. They're like, you know, so teach them right. You might be grooming the next, you know, Olympic, uh, shooter. Yeah. No, absolutely. Olympics, right. It's still an Olympic sport, right? It is now and, and I guess that brings up another question is, you know, are you the right person to be teaching the child, you know, the firearm safety and, and shooting and whatnot and, you know, and, uh, it's another, uh, something else I've seen come up at times where you see, you know, parents out there on the range with their kids and they're getting frustrated just like anybody else, you know, getting frustrated, trying to teach other family members and whatnot. And so, you know, if, uh, if you don't have, you know, the ability to, you know, to, uh, transfer that knowledge over to them in a, in a comfortable setting, you know, maybe it is better that you're bringing them to an official class and, you know, there's definitely courses that are, you know, more geared, you know, towards those types of individuals. But yeah, training, training is a big thing. Absolutely. Like, I don't, I don't care if you're an adult or a child or anything in between, you should be training. But the cool thing is if you take your kid to somebody that, like, has a course that they teach just for like, kids in firearms. You know, like Ken Crawford has one, you have one, you know, like you give them a good, like, base of information and base knowledge and get them started right. Then by the time they're like, you know, 1314, 15 maybe. And you want to go to a defensive class and you talk to the instructor, I've had plenty of fathers and sons and fathers and daughters and moms and sons, like, on the line where the adult and then the child is, you know, I think my youngest was 13, you know, right side by side with each other shooting because the child had started at a younger age and they had showed the maturity and the respect that is required, you know, stand on the line with a bunch of other adults to train. Yeah. Yeah, true fact. Um, absolutely. You know, I've had some younger teenagers out there, you know, in those courses, you know, shooting with parents and whatnot, shooting with family members and, and I, you know, had full confidence in their ability to be able to handle the gun safely and, you know, to be able to handle the skills that were being taught those days. So it's, uh, because they were started properly, you know, early on, you know, but, and, you know, II, I don't have kids. Right. But even if I did have kids, I probably would have you or Ken or maybe Rob, if he was in town, somebody that teaches kids to, to, to, like, really teach my kids because it's almost like I, and you could tell me I'm wrong because I, I know you fought your boys and stuff. But to me it almost seems like it could turn into close to the husband and wife type thing. Uh, it certainly can, you know, uh, be terse but you're terse or they know you well enough to like, oh, that's ok. Is really you screaming at them when you go. That's all right. That's all right. You know, it's like, ok, you just yelled at me. I don't know, but like, seek it out a professional. There's, there's nothing wrong and it doesn't, you know, you get that, let them give them the base and then once they've got the base and like, they know what they're supposed to be doing, then they come to you and you take them out and have fun and then you, they, now they could be held accountable because then you can go, well, don't you remember what Barrett or Ken or Rob or whoever their instructor was told you this, this and this and then like, oh, yeah. Right. No, the information we've got my, uh, boys right now in, in performance training, you know, with sports and, you know, and they're, they're hearing things from the, the coaches that I've said plenty of times but it just, they, they were not, you know, we're not there to absorb it. They weren't going to absorb it, you know, because dad was saying it but you, you put somebody else, you know, that leader in place to be able to, you know, provide that knowledge and they're, they're like little sponges right now, you know. It's awesome. Yeah. So you, you gotta make sure that you are, you know, the, the right individual a lot of times it is better to, to pass that along, you know, because, uh, at the end of the day, you know, we're trying to make sure that the kids enjoy the shooting and, you know, and they're learning how to do it safely and it's something that they're, you know, gonna continue on to, to, to work with, uh, in a successful way for the years to come. Right. Absolutely. All right. I got a question for you. What about, so you said that you had, uh when did you have, let me phrase that? You said you did not have access to that gun at an early age, right? You couldn't, you know, it wasn't in your bedroom kind of thing, you know, when you first got that little 22 revolver, uh was it locked up? Yes. Ok. Yep. So it was like, so back in this was like, everybody knows I'm in my fifties. So this was in the seventies. So I, I remember the safe, it was in, it was sort of like the safe. That was like, it wasn't like a real safe. Like you see like a fortnight Knox, a Knox safe or any of that stuff or liberty or any of that. It was like, uh I don't even know what the brand was, but it's kind of, you'd see that you buy it like a Home Depot or something that has a fire rating, but it's not the hardest thing to break into. But, I mean, you need a crowbar and stuff but it would protect stuff from fire in the floor. And my dad, like, kept, and the most important family papers in that safe on the shelf in, in his closet and he'd open it up and throw the gun in there and lock it up. Um, but if I was one of those kids that was always trying to figure out what my dad's combination was and how to get into that safe. I probably never would have been allowed to have a gun in the first place. Like my dad probably would have been like, uh, no, he can't show that he's mature enough to even try to stay the heck away from the safe. So why would I let him have that in the house? But that's where it sat, it was in there. Um, and then, uh, he had a shotgun also in that closet that obviously that did not fit a safe. Um, but that there was no ammo for it anywhere, the ammo was all locked up in the safe. So even if I decided to pick it up and walk around with it, I, I had no access to any shells or anything. Did you ever decide to pick it up and walk around with it or touch it or look at it, you know, handle it when you weren't supposed to? No, because like my dad made it very very clear, um, from jump that, like, if I touched it, I was never getting to use it. If I went, if I, if I went in this closet and touched it, I was not allowed to use it. And he would always say I know exactly how it's sitting in there. Maybe he did, maybe he didn't, I don't know. But, you know, that was just enough for me to be like, oh no. And then I got my pistol gifted to me. And when I got that thing, then it was like if you touch that or mess with the safe this, it's all going away. So it was like, oh, and I knew my dad was serious because, uh, I lost my bicycle years before that because I stayed home sick one day. And I was told not to because both my parents were teachers and, uh, I had to wait like an hour or two for the lady that was gonna come sit with me that day. And I was told you sit here and watch TV and stay laying down until she comes. And I decided I was gonna get ride my bike around the, the driveway because we lived on a farm. We had this big driveway with a circular turn about in the driveway. And I had the school BMX bike that I decided I was gonna go ride. And, uh, when he came home, she told on me and my bike went Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye bye. I learned from a very young age. My dad did not throw idle, idle threats around. Yeah. You know, I asked that, you know, because I, I've, I've worked with a lot of parents over the years and, and, you know, and I've, I've taught lessons on access prevention and responsible gun ownership a lot. You know, it, it just falls into a lot of the realm of what I do. And, you know, and I started asking, I had somebody that, you know, was a student of mine, great guy actually passed away a few years ago. Uh But, you know, uh Bob's like, uh he's sitting around Thanksgiving table, you know, with his family, you know, this is a few years back, right? And he, he, it was his dad, he's like, dad, you know, uh you remember that uh little revolver, you had a little 38 special revolver you had and his dad was like, oh, yeah, yeah. You know, he's like, uh and they talked about how it was, you know, kept out of reach and whatnot, right? And it was always, you know, kept out of reach and he was supposed to have access to it. He's like, but yeah, dad, you know, you know, and this a little safe Thanksgiving meal that we're talking about right now, I just wanna let, you know, I used to always play with it, you know, he always got it down, always mess with it and stuff and, you know, and so it, that always kind of, it, it, it struck me is how, when he said that when he's telling me about it, I'm like, well, I wonder, you know, how many people truly handled firearms that they weren't supposed to handle and, you know, there's no science behind, you know, my studies or any of that, you know, with this, it's just asking, uh, the, you know, parents or teacher or their students that have come through my classes over the years and there's a lot of people who have handled firearms that were not supposed to handle firearms and, you know, not to say that it was all reckless, but just to say that it was a thing. And so, you know, and what I've learned with that over the years is, you know, if you truly don't want, you know, that, that child or that person, uh, handling that firearm when you're not around the, you know, really the only answer is to, you know, to make sure it's being secured, to make sure it is being locked up. Right. I mean, you can have good parenting, you know, like your dad did and teach you early on that. Hey, you know, you already lost your bicycle. Don't lose the guns because they're gonna go away too and, and not hit home with you. Right. And that was enough for you, you know. But, uh, unfortunately that's, you know, it's not enough where that doesn't happen, you know, for everybody else. And so I think that if you are bringing guns into the home and you've got the kids around that you're not ready to be handling without any supervision whatsoever, then you better make sure it's locked up because hiding it and putting out of reach is just, uh, you know, could be false hope. Right. And we, we always talk about hope's not a method, you know, it's not like in 19, in the 19 seventies, like, I don't even know were trigger locks even a thing, you know, I don't know. Uh, I can always remember trigger locks being a thing with firearms that I bought. And so I don't know at what point, uh, federal law required those little trigger locks to come with the guns. But I feel like even going back to that 20 gauge, I had a trigger lock, you know, that came with that. Yeah, because, because like, you know, the shotgun, like I said, he didn't have any way to lock it up, but there was no access to shells or anything like that. Now, this day and age, the way things are going, I don't know, that might be a little that, that would probably, uh, I would call that reckless because there's way too many options for locks and stuff to like, secure a long rifle because all it takes is you the way the, the world has become, is me as a little kid being like, well, I'm still taking the shotgun out and like grabbing it and going outside even no shells or anything. You could end up getting me killed by a, you know, a police officer, law enforcement, a neighbor or something like that. Thinking I'm like the crazy kid that decided he was gonna go take the shotgun on a shooting. I, I won't even let my kids take the ass off, you know, to the front yard. It's like all that, you know, outside of outside the eye of the public. Yeah. You know, like I had BB guns and pellet guns and stuff like that and one of my pellet guns did actually look like a real revolver. Um You know, it was a much bigger than a revolver because you had to have that little disk that you put the pellets in. So, but even that like I had those, now those I did kind of have free rein with and now thinking back, I was like, oh yeah, I could have been Ralphie and shot my eye out, but I wouldn't have died, I don't think. But, but like, like we talked about earlier in the show, man, it was a different time back then. You know, the world is definitely changed and you know, the things you gotta worry about that you'd be like someone my age are like, oh, that never would happen when I was a kid, you know, like sound like my dad. Now, when, when he was, when things were happening when I was a little kid, you know. Oh, that never would happen when I was a kid. Well, yeah, when you were a kid they don't have so didn't have bathrooms and houses you had to go out back like Wyoming. Uh we got a, we got a comment on here from John. You know, he said he started his granddaughter who is a first grader with a Red Rider Phoebe gun this summer, you know, understand firearm safety. She got a K A kick out of hitting the target. Yeah, and that's, uh, we had at Red Rider. Red Riders, you know, in the backyard as well, you know, for a while because it did give me the ability to, you know, sit there and coach the kids on firearm safety, but also give them more freedom, you know, to be able to, uh, shoot them, you know, as well. And, and, well, I, I said that earlier with the hunting, you know, I had him in the backyard shooting the pellet gun, uh, and made sure that they were stacking pellets on top of the pellets, you know, before I would, you know, even get them out to have them trust to, you know, to work across the big calibers on actual animals. Yeah, I mean, nothing wrong with starting with there. I, I mean, I guess you could technically say I started with air guns too. Yeah. Yeah, me too. Yeah. Yeah. Had a pump action, um, had something similar to a red rider that I never could quite get it to load. Right. Because you had to, like, twist the knob and, like, move the little tab and then dump the B BS in. I think I'd end up always dumping more B BS all over the ground that never would be seen again. I'm sure if you ran a metal detector in the gardens off the back porch, you're gonna find lots of little, lots of B BS, lots of B BS. So that, I mean, that's, uh, you know, that, that's kids, right? You know, it's just making sure it's the, the appropriate stuff, you know, providing them the training and, you know, and make sure that, uh that, you know, not just with the kids, but that we're preventing access to anyone that we need to be preventing access from. And I always, again, this is kind of made up, but I always say that if you, if it would scare you, you know, to give this person a loaded gun and walk away from it for the next three weeks. You know, if that scares you, then you probably should be doing something to prevent access with that individual. No, and, and even preventing access, right? Like I, I've heard the question come up with uh working with Rob before, you know, like well, I, I can break of the adult says I can break into a quick to access safe. And the answer is, well, if you're worried about your kid breaking into your quick access safe, you have a bigger problem and a gun is not the answer to have in your house. At that point in time. If you're more worried about your child being five hours alone at home and you think they're gonna be there with, you know, a hammer and a chisel and a fry bar working on your, on your safe because they want to mess with the gun. True fact. Yeah, I had a, uh, a student several years back and I remember that conversation with him. He's like, yeah, man, I just, we'd actually just talked about child access prevention and, and, uh, he's like, yeah, he said, uh, you know, right now I don't really have a lot of trust for my, uh, 16 year old, you know, at the time, 16 year old not making good decisions and dad did not trust him. So dad got rid of the gun safe, you know, the gun safe and all the guns were completely moved out of the house because he recognized that, you know, that to a certain degree locks are to keep honest people out. And, you know, and so he's exactly who you're just talking about and he didn't trust the person to be alone home alone because he felt that he was going to try to get into it. So the answer was the guns could not be in the home. Oh, yeah. But, you know, and I could see the follow up being, well, you know, what about protecting myself? Well, this person did keep it. Yeah. I mean, but even though that even in this day and age you're more, you, you're less likely to need to use a firearm for personal offense in your entire lifetime. Like, you're more than likely not gonna need it. So why bring it in for this small sliver of possibility when there's a bigger possibility that there's somebody in that house that's gonna get, that's gonna strive for unauthorized access and something, you know, worse could happen. Right? So this individual, you know, he, he recognized that and, uh, it, his current role, uh, in employment, it made sense to have the firearm as well. Uh, but, uh, he, you know, only kept his carry gun, uh, you know, that was with him and, and that one stayed, you know, on him, obviously, you know, during the day when he was carried and whatnot and, uh, believe went into like a bedside safe, you know, at night, but a little bit different because he's there, you know, at that point. And on top of that, like, I want like a full, like, legit, like not quick as a access seat, like a full size seat, you get a good one and I don't care unless you're some hardened, safe cracking criminal, you're there, there, there's not a kid gonna get in there unless you like keep blow torture plasma cutter like you like that. But you know, so, all right, so, well then I don't have quick access. Ok? But everybody in the house is safe and you're preventing unauthorized access, like unauthorized access is the owner's responsibility. So, whatever that requires, it's your job to make that happen. Definitely. So, so what about gifting to adults, you know, in your case, you know, maybe a spouse or, you know, something like that kind of goes back to the same question. Random uncle, you know, can't wait to get my wife this new gun. What are your thoughts? Question? What, what, what is the context are you buying this gun for him for? If they, if it's personal defense, like, then we'll have to talk about, you know, fit caliber, that kind of stuff. Um, if it's, you know, I just want to get him into shooting, then it's ok. Well, you know, what's their hand size? What's their body size? What's their, you know, are they a strong person that has good mobility stuff like that? Like same thing with a kid, you know, like fits, does it fit their hand? Is it gonna be enjoyable for them to shoot, you know, sort of the same thing? So, like, what's the context of, are you buying this gun or they have a whole bunch of other guns and you just want to get them something that, you know, they might shoot once in a while and then the rest of the time it's gonna sit in a glass case or something and look all nice and tr a glass case like on a spinning pedestal. Yeah. You know, like I've seen some, you know, some people, like, have the, the limited edition, you know, all, uh, etched metal and engraved and stuff like that. I've see, I've, I've been in a few houses where I've seen them sitting in the class and I'm always like, does that work? Yeah, you're just gonna leave it in a glass case, huh? That's cool. Yeah, I'm like, ok. Um, but yeah, that's what I'd ask. I'd be like, you know, what's there? What's the, what is it for? Because, yeah, m context it used usually drives everything, right. I always kind of, you know, compared to buying vehicles, you know, if somebody shows up to the Toyota dealership, they may sell, I don't know what they sell 1220 whatever different models of vehicles you're not going there trying to figure out, are you driving away with the big shiny brand new, you know, minivan? Uh, or are you getting, you know, the Tundra pickup truck? Right? You, somebody doesn't go to the dealership with those kinds of options. They already know that. Well, I've got this big, you know, trailer that I have to pull and the tundra is going to be the only vehicle, you know, that Toyota makes, it's actually going to work that's going to fit that bill. Right. So, they already go there and ignore everything else. Right. It's context that drives everything. If you're concerned only about fuel economy, then you're probably not going to get the tundra. Certainly not going to get my truck. Right. So, you're, you're not, yeah, you're not gonna put bigger tires on it, lift it and all that kind of stuff, you know. But if you're trying to go, you know, drive, uh, drive across mountains and through creeks. Well, it's a different conversation, you know, and, and so, yeah, context drives everything and, and so, you know, from there, there is a lot that goes into it, you know, and we've talked about this before you can pull up some back lessons or I'm sure some articles on PDM Derek's Google Foo in a minute might come up with some, but, you know, in the sense that, uh, you, you got, you know, if it's personal offense, obviously the gun has to be reliable, but from there, you know, it's gonna have to properly fit that individual and fit that individual's lifestyle. Right. Uh, you know, plenty of people carry full size guns, but if somebody's trying to go for concealed carry, I can, you know, there's a good likelihood they're not gonna want to carry a full size gun Right. And so the gun's gotta be small enough to conceal, big enough for, you know, to be able to still shoot and work with efficiently. Uh, and it's got to fit the hand and the person ultimately ends up having, you know, having to actually like it. Right. And so maybe, maybe you don't go buy the gun and wrap the gun up and stick it under the tree. You know, maybe you, you know, take the person shopping or like I told you, you know, Derek's already dropping in the comments, uh or you know, the, you, you get the person a gift card, right? And allow them to go pick out, you know, what is going to be the best choice and make that part of the Christmas gift part of the experience where you go visit, you know, the closest uh range that's got the rental cabinet and you, you, you start getting them out and you're testing them out and trying them and, you know, and let the person walk away with what they believe is going to be perfect, you know, learn the knowledge and, and then, you know, let the person make the choice. I've seen a few, a bunch of instructors uh like do it, like looking at different instructor groups. I'm members of like in your members of Facebook and stuff like that. And I've done it a few times. It's like, uh I've done new shooter intro classes where I bring out, you know, a bunch of different guns in defensive calibers, you know, of to let people, you know, first I'll do the class of, you know, picking a gun holsters, all the concealed character stuff with it and then give them an opportunity to try different size guns and talk about so they can relate to when I talk about, you know, like you said, the fit, how does the gun fit in your hand shoot ability, recoil management? So they can get an idea of, you know, like the difference between like trying to hold something with a grip that size in your hand versus where I got it here somewhere. There it is, you know, a revolver, you know, something with a little tiny grip like that, you know. Um so they can get a feel for, you know, not just, oh my wife has small hands or my husband has small hands. I'm just gonna give him a snub nose revolver. No, please, please, please. No or, or, you know, something like the avidity arms PDD 10 with a very slim profile grip that fits a ton of hands. This is actually my wife's favorite gun now. Um not this one because she's not getting, this is a, this is a one off one of a kind that I spent eight days in Wyoming, freezing and baking and living in a gully for 24 hours. I love it, freezing and baking depending on what time of the day. It was, yeah, Wyoming is, is a very interesting place where at least where we were in Wyoming, like one side, it looked like I was in North Carolina at Camp Lejeune training and then I looked to my left and it looked like I was back in 29 Palms getting ready to go training. It was, it was wild. Um, but you know, like, you know what you might think, oh, well, they need something small and concealable, you know, like a little glock 43. Like you're holding on to very little gun with this, you know, like you're, you, you got a whole bunch of fingers floating around. Um, you know, that might not be really enjoyable to shoot if you're looking to buy somebody a defensive handgun or you want to buy him a gun to get started shooting, you know? Yeah, monthly. I run a, you know, kind of a new shooter course for defensive shooting and, you know, part of that course I, I, I've got, you know, 30 minutes or elearning, you know, just dedicated to choosing firearms and whatnot. And then I get them out to the range and, yeah, you know, I, I've got a rental case or a loner case is really, uh, that of different options in there. I've got the PD 10 in there and, you know, and I've got different variations of Clocks and Smith and Wesson and Cigs and you just uh, loner guns for the students and, and, and sometimes have the ability to, you know, to be able to test out and try, you know, the different stuff. But there, there's one thing that has happened. So, so, so many times, you know, in the sense that, uh, the person gets to the class and they either already came to the conclusion of it early on or by the end of the course where they realize that the gun that was given to them, you know, or the gun that was, they were told to buy because it was going to be the perfect thing for them, you know, by uncle Trooper or, you know, by spouse or whoever else, uh, ends up being an absolutely horrible choice and they, you know, came to the conclusion of that on their own and, you know, if they don't enjoy it, they don't like shooting it and especially if this person's new to the sport, they're certainly not going to want to continue. Yeah. You know, it's, and, and, and the cool thing about, you know, so you buy them, whatever it is you need to buy them or, you know, they go and they try them out and the one they pick and you're just getting them into it and the one they pick is, you know, like a, like a 22 like a Remington 22. What's that? On Mark 11 3? They've got the Mark four. Mark three, mark four, mark five. Yeah, a couple of different marks, something like that. You know, and they're like, you know, in your mind you're thinking, well, that's not a defensive gun and you're, because you're in goal, you want them to be carrying a gun or more proficient with a gun so they can protect themselves at home for home defense or whatever. You gotta get them started with something and you buy them that gun. Well, cool, it'll, it'll retain a good enough value that, like, if you don't want to keep it when it's time that they're ready to, like, move up to the next size to a real defensive caliber size gun. You can take it as a tra, they can take it to the gun shop and do a trade in on it or, you know, take it to the gun shop how and sell it on consignment or use it to bring other people out to the range, you know, to get them experience with it. Yeah. I mean, you know, you, you're better off though, you know, and, and if they haven't had a gun in their hand ever, I, you're, you're better off in my opinion of getting them the gift certificate, gift card, taking them to the range and letting them try a whole bunch of different guns than thinking, ok, that has a small, they have small hands and that's a small grip and that'll be a good fit and the training class that goes along with it, you know, it's training is like, key, like anything you, you do should, you should go to training like motorcycles, right. I'm big into motorcycles. Like, I'm not riding the same motorcycle I bought when I first started riding. You know, the first bike I ever rode was 800 cc. Then I went to 1200 cc. And like, now I, I don't even know what it is at CCS now because it's 100 and 24 cubic inches. It's a monster, you know, um, and it weighs £900. And the first one I rode, I think maybe you weigh 5 £600. You know, as you experience, it gets better and the more training you've been through, you know, you graduate, you move, you move up the line until you get to the point of, ok, I'm a expert or, um, I, I'm well versed or whatever you wanna say. And this is what I've decided. This is my everyday carry gun. This is my personal defense gun. I mean, hey, you know, you might really get them hooked. And next thing, you know, they have a safe with 20 different guns in it and they're like, when was the last time you shot that? I don't, yeah, you know, and maybe you don't have to buy the gift card for the person who already has the 20 guns. You know, because they're already, that's the gun they want, they asked you for it. No big deal. Right. Yeah. And, and that does happen. I, when I owned a gun shop, a brick and mortar shop, I actually had a woman come in and I'm not gonna disparage any, any types of guns, but she comes in, she's like, I'm gonna, it was Christmas and she goes, I wanna buy this, this brand model for my husband for Christmas. And I said, of course, me being me, I go, it's a horrible defensive choice. So just know that and I'm like, don't you love them, don't you want them to survive a deadly encounter? And she goes, oh, no, he wants that gun. He already has, uh, another brand that he personally carries for defense. I'm like, oh, ok. Ok. So he made a good decision for his personal offense. This is just a fun gun. So he's not gonna be that mad when it jams. It doesn't run right now. True fact. Yeah, I already know that story. Yeah. So, you know, but, and there's nothing wrong with it. Hey, you have somebody that's like, sort of into guns and they're not, they have a concealed carry permit or maybe they don't, and they just never carry because they don't feel like they're ready. Buy them a training class, buy them a gift certificate for a training classes. Every instructor I know sells some sort of, uh, gift, gift certificate for training. True fact. Yeah. That's uh that, that's always my advice when somebody, you know, says that they want to go buy a gun and they're, and then they're gonna come get training, might just reverse that around, you know, take the training course and then go make that educated choice after that. Yeah. And there's nothing wrong with, you know, buying AAA class that has like an online portion, you know, like you can learn a lot online without even shooting the gun, you know, because it's a lot of it is like understanding of the mechanics and understanding of the, the actual tool itself, right? I, I just did finished a champ you online course. Uh, it's like an advanced rider's course on motorcycle riding and it had nothing like, obviously it's online. So I'm not riding in watching it, you know, but it talked about concepts, you know, trail breaking and stuff like that, that, you know, stuff I sort of knew or just knew because I've ridden so long. But like having it spelled out of the actual why I got a ton of, I've taken a lot of, uh, online classes in the past few years and gotten a ton out of them and, you know, with the online and, uh, Derek and I actually did this and talked about this on a video. But, you know, when you've got online material, you've got the freedom to be able to walk away from it, come back to it, pause and rewind it, watch it again. You know, I didn't, didn't remember what the instructor said. You kind of go back and watch it again. So, uh, online training that's done well is super beneficial. And with my online stuff I'm constantly, constantly getting, you know, uh, reviews about how, you know, they learn so much more, you know, in my online courses than they have, you know, with conceptual information than they have in many, many other, you know, in person courses just in person. You know, a lot of times you're maybe your head's not into it. You're the football games on, some of y'all are probably trying to watch the football game tonight, you know, and, you know, Derek and I, uh, right, but there's a lot of times you're, you're splitting resources, splitting interest and, uh, and it's harder to, you know, stay 100% in it. But with the online material, you, you've got that freedom to be able to make it convenient for you. Yeah. Absolutely. Well, man, you were like, we, uh, we'll, we'll talk about it for 30 minutes here. We are an hour, hour and two minutes later. So when you said when you said earlier, you're like, oh, you know, you think we'll be able to make 30 minutes in my head. I'm like, man, you put us together and we lucky as I was just looking at the clock, I'm like, all right, we probably start wrapping up here soon. Hit that hour. Mark, man, I, I see we got a comment. My first rifle, uh, my dad took me rabbit hunting with was a Winchester, uh, 22 WRF hex barrel pump, right? I replied, that's like Sim, that's so similar to like my Remington II. I, I'm like sitting here, I'm like scrolling through my phone because like one of my 1st, 1st, 1st, Instagram post was a picture of that rifle and I'm like, trying to make sure I got the actual model, right? But I didn't think I ever posted that much on Instagram every time I go to look, look for something on Instagram. I'm like, I don't remember posting this much. Uh But yeah, you know, I, I've got, you know, from my father-in-law, my father-in-law passed away a few years ago, but, uh one of the rifles uh that he gave me uh before he passed away, you know, was his uh 22 you know, pump action uh and cool gun, you know, really cool gun gun was older than my father-in-law, you know, at that time. And it's definitely something that, you know, glad that, that we have around and we'll continue. I need to get it out honestly, with the kids, you know, smaller gun, but definitely 22 pump. I don't think it was a hex barrel, but I've definitely seen, you know, the hex barrels that you're talking about. Oh, I, I was wrong. It's a Winchester model 61 and I got it when I was six. You, you're gonna hold the picture up. There we go. Yeah, actually it looks like it's in good shape. So I posted that July 29th of 2013. Cool deal. Cool deal. Well, many, uh, let's see, we didn't pull up that link. So let me try to find that link real quick. You sent it to me, you said, uh, for the 12, the 12 drills of the 1212 drills of Christmas? Yeah, 12 drills of holiday or something like that. Um, just gotta punch in your, uh, uh, what do you call it, um, your email address and I'll send it to you. All right. So, I'm gonna do double check the link here and what do you call it in the chat room? Ok. I just dropped in the chat role. 12 days of drills. Yeah. So that'd be pretty neat. You know, the, uh, personal defense network, uh, go sign up for it and, you know, for, uh, 12 days they will send you different drills, uh, that you can work on, uh, this holiday season or coming into next year. Some of y'all are going into, I don't go outside this time of year. I get it. I wouldn't go outside either if there was snow on the ground, you know. But some of us like Derek, it's like, ah, it's finally nice. I can go outside and actually I'm not sweating five minutes after being on the gun range. Yeah. Uh, it's still, like, right now we're in a cold spell. But, um, it's still, I was out in the garage gym today and it was, it still got, it worked its way up to 73 and I was sweating, sweating hard. Um, I rode my motorcycle this morning and it was 50 like, I stood outside before I jumped on the bike and I was like, oh, this isn't that bad and I know better. I know better. It's not that bad standing on your front porch, but it's a whole different story. When you're on a motorcycle doing 40 to 50 miles an hour. Then it was like, I was in an Arctic blast. So it's interesting. Uh, well, I posted that in the chat role and I will do the same, uh, here on Facebook. See, 12 days of drills. It's always fun when we have technical difficulties. At some point, youtube decided that, um, we were playing someone else's audio. They detected someone else's audio, which is very interesting considering neither one of us are playing audio. Yeah. And the only audio that plays is right, uh, when we were first starting up and that's licensed audio, you know, for us to be able to use. So who knows? I'll look into that. But, uh, yeah, thanks everybody for tuning in tonight. Now, make sure you check out those 12 days of drills. Obviously special thanks to Primary Arms online. You know, they are definitely running some specials uh this time of year. Hopefully you got in on some of their Black Friday specials, but if not pay attention to their website because I promise you they're gonna be doing more, you know, as we get closer and closer to Christmas. Uh but we will see y'all again for the first Thursday in January for training talk show. We'll have a great topic, maybe a guest or something like that. But thank everybody for tuning in and y'all have a wonderful night.