In almost all circumstances, people are better off carrying defensive firearms in a concealed manner. Carrying a firearm in order to create confrontation or make a political statement is something very different from carrying for personal defense. Carrying a defensive firearm openly can make you a target and/or draw unnecessary attention. While there are times when you must open carry your firearm, choosing to do so when concealment is an option is usually a bad idea.
I have carried a gun virtually every day since 1984. There are only two times that I carried a gun openly, as a uniformed officer on duty. If I was off duty, I carried concealed. Now as a retired officer, I only carry openly when I am on my own rural ranch property. All of my holsters have retention devices.
Thanks for a honest, intelligent, valuable video. Of late, a vocal minority in the 2nd Am community have made us all look like a bunch of racist morons and fake tough guys. As this video said, the purpose of carry is protection when needed, not to lecture anyone on what we believe. In the end, being responsible serves all of us.
Wow… People like this is exactly why our rights are under constant attack. The founders believed that only cowards and criminals would carry concealed weapons and a video like this make me think they were right.
I agree with the reasons for not carrying openly, for many of the reasons mentioned. However, if it is a legal right, then you are not wrong for exercising that right. Nor is it “ridiculous” to do so. Rather than argue from the standpoint that it is “reckless” to exercise this right, it would be less divisive or condescending and more productive to simply point out the reasons for not doing so, as was done at the beginning of the video, instead of preaching against fellow gun owners exercising their legal rights. Nor does California need a “reason” to take a gun owners’ rights away. See Proposition 63 which made legal gun owners into criminals for owning formerly legal firearms.
I agree entirely. Right on Rob!!!!!!
I have open carried in Louisiana for many years without incident. I find it more convenient and comfortable than concealed carrying. If you supposedly have the right but never or seldom utilize it, then it is of very limited value.
I agree about CCW BUT I can’t come up with the $156+FEE for prints and wait 6+ mo I had a nylon gun belt and bought on Ebay a “Gould & Goodrich” triple retention holster for $10. I agree about retention I have seen a guy 300+ lbs and having sweats that were to big had a ruger single six in a clip on holster and walking behind him(had to go that way)every 5 secs he had to pull up his pants. Another had a colt single action in a open top holster you could go up behind either one and grab gun and run, I was tempted to ask if they ever thought of that but both looked like thay were looking for a fight with someone.
During the 2016 election a bunch of us were holding up big 6′ X 4′ vote trump signs first time I had a side arm. second time we had stuff thrown at us(Batteries,sockets, rocks cursing and threats) next time side arm no trouble at all.here in Southern Colorado it’s pretty common except in the Denver area because of the influx of Californicates who have passed the STUPID extended mag ban and 62 of 64 sheriffs said they will not uphold the law.The governor’s aid told him he promised his friends he would get the gov to pass the law so he did.
I live in MI and can legally carry open. I don’t. I don’t like attracting attention of any kind. I’ve watched people that do CO and watch the reaction of people. Most don’t notice but the ones that do stare and sometimes point and on one occasion had to have a “discussion” with the individual. Not what I need. I would like to OC when it’s hot and humid but chose to be comforted not comfortable. There is a new polo shirt that would help tremendously just need money.
I intentionally open carry when I am camping/backpacking/hiking. As a woman – I am not making a political statement, I am letting any random stranger in the woods that I might come across know that I will not be an easy victim so they should look elsewhere.
Here is the elephant in the room; just because concealed carry is “legal” in some states does not mean that it comes without requiring you giving up some of your rights (the right to privacy). If the second amendment is correct, then Constitutional Carry is what we all should have and the dollar cost and loss of privacy to obtain and maintain a CCW is not necessary. Most people that I know that open carry do not for the purpose of showing off, but to retain their rights that a CCW would violate. So I would say, not so black and white as [my hero] Rob makes it in this video clip.
Additionally, I see no issue with a guy walking into a coffee shop with an AR safely slung across his back. However, walking in with an AR on a single point sling and your hand on the grip…. Definitely seems a bit more menacing and inappropriate.
Six minutes of my life that I will never get back. Pretty disappointed with the opinionated video. I expected to hear more about the different type of retention levels and holsters. Maybe even a few weapon retention techniques to employ if someone attempts to disarm you.
Why do police open carry? Doesn’t that make them a target? Does it make people feel un-easy? I understand that there is another level of training involved here, but why should only those with a badge be the only ones open carrying?
I would like to see it more normalized. It shouldn’t be something we only expect to see in public , only if you’re wearing a badge.
Great video. I agree, there is no reason to open carry to Walmart or grocery shopping, etc. It does make others fearful, and that only gives the rest of us bad publicity.
responsible individual should not be interested in drawing attention to one’s self in such a manner. I have carried a concealed firearm for 42 years either as an off duty police officer or as a CCW holder and have never felt the need to advertise the fact that I am armed.
For the most part, our fellow citizens are not favorably impressed with open carry. It often scares people, most likely those that have had no experience with a firearm and/or are anti-gun (and there are a lot of them, particularly in the bigger cities). Open carrying a firearm because “you can” is not clear, logical thinking. We, as concealed carriers, need to maintain a pretty low, non-offensive profile. The time to exhibit and take action is when you are confronted with a deadly threat. We certainly don’t need more push against personal carry because we are offensive in displaying “our rights’. Remember, politicians make laws, many of which are based only on emotion and the ability to gain votes by padding their resume with all the laws they have sponsored.
When I was a police officer, I was off duty and shopping at a local food store. I bent over to pick a can from the bottom shelf and exposed my 1911 stuck in the small of my back. A lady saw the gun, called the police and I was visited by a neighboring jurisdiction officer. Fortunately, he recognized me. This was many years ago, today you’re very likely going to be confronted by at least three officers, and likely at gun point. A very tense and uncomfortable scenario. Conceal, conceal, conceal.
Well Rob, you just lost my support. The first straw was the ads now showing before these videos. As a paying member, I should not be seeing ads, period. The second is this video. You could (and arguably should) have approached this peacefully instead of confrontationally. Coming out of the gate with “I can’t think of any good reason to open carry…” is NOT how you handle this.
You also failed to factor in another important reason for open carry – education. I have had people come up to me asking if “that” was a gun and if it was legal to carry. I explain to them that it is legal and why I do carry a gun. Now that person has been re-introduced to guns in the environment without images of the “wild, wild west” going through their heads. I just did a public service. But according to you, that’s not a legitimate reason to open carry.
You see the thing is you cannot possibly consider the myriad of laws of all 50 states when making such a blank statement. And in so doing, you have really disappointed me and lost my support. I’ll be cancelling my membership immediately.
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Chris, did it occur to you that the ads you are so upset over, are put in by people making comments just as you have done? Likely, not the fault of Rob or his people. For every person you example that asked reasonable questions about your carry, there are likely 10 that are; terrified, passed off that you scared their kids or just pass you off as some nut case. Your threat to withdraw support from Rob is really a knee-jerk reaction when he is providing information that could save your life. If you are that thin-skinned, I would seriously question your carrying a firearm.
I understand you folks have a big California audience with OC limitations, and I agree in regards to the “rights abused” adage. Unfortunately I believe America’s gun rights/right to bear arms, has reached a point where the media and their pundits have created such hysteria and pumped folks with so much disinformation that many Americans have lost a sense of gun toting enculturation. I think it’s important for Americans to see law abiding citizens carrying guns. But unfortunately at this point in time, the folks who are “strapping on an AR” and participating in OC movement, should be organized and ensure the community including the police are aware of such OC activity. I don’t say this because I believe the police have a right to know ahead of time, but rather as a courtesy for the community. Similar to any other activism movement. If the police posture for such events, or create undue friction, I believe this would be case where the OC activism needs to be emphasized more frequently and possibly more aggressively. I don’t believe Americans need to justify or explain “the right to bear arms.” Just as I know the 9th Circuit Court is right at this very moment violating tens of thousands of American’s constitutional rights, and should be dismantled and regulated by a higher governing body. Open carry is a right, so is concealed, you think otherwise go reference the Second Amendment of the Bill of Rights, in the US Constitution. I don’t think open carrying military type guns is in good taste, but it’s a right. I have my views, opinions, but my perspective no matter how special and brilliant I think I am, doesn’t mean jack, when it’s a constitutional right. Lest we forget this.
Some of the comments are a little strange. I open carry in Arizona because I go prospecting in the desert and the weapon, revolver, is heavy, Taurus Judge. When I come out of the desert and stop to get a drink I don’t want to leave it in the truck. Hard to cover with a T shirt. Why a Taurus, Snakes, 2 and no legged types. Being caught in a Javelina stampede, etc. I happen to agree with the video, It ain’t politically correct. As for, if they took your right away, you never had it. Yeh, you did. Ignorant people do stupid things that screws it up for everyone else. Another response = I didn’t hear him call anyone stupid. I believe he was trying, nicely to give pointers in safe carry. My gun is never worn to the rear and is always strapped down. I’ve seen people with some strange holsters that let the guns fall out, but they are great for fast draw, if the gun is still there. Wonder what ever happened to the old clam shell holsters? Press down on the butt and the holster opened like a clam shell and the gun popped out? Only ever saw one. It was owned by a Sheriff in Douglas County Nevada in the 1960’s.
100% great video.
You’re right, man… No reason whatsoever to “open carry”… It’s just starting trouble, and possible annoyance…
One other note if you are carrying openly and a situation develops, you just made yourself and those around you, prime targets to the new treat because you are the one, that a bad guy sees, that needs to be eliminated in a hostile situation.
This was excellent and well presented. I hope more people catch on. I had a friend that was a security guard and walked to work and back home, while displaying his gun. It did draw attention to some of the lower class people and they did get it away from him. Thank God all they did was tease and scare him.
i currently carry concealed and i’m from Texas where open carry has just been signed into law and takes affect jan. 1 2016. my comment is if it’s not “appropriate” to open carry then why are all these states making it law? i have one more question if it’s law then how can businesses say they WON’T obey the law and not allow open carry in their establishments?
The reason for state enacting open carry laws varies from state to state. As for businesses, generally speaking they are viewed as private property and the individual merchant can decide if they will or will not allow (any form) or carry in their establishment. The validity and/or how much “power” these signs carry also varies from state to state. I have included a PDN video covering Open Carry below.
it is called freedom and with freedom you have to have tolerance or there is no freedom. now private property means private and we do not want the state to control or how can it be private??
here is the thing. whether the state or private, if you take away the right to self defense, then who’s responsibility is it?? the answer is whomever took your responsibility away. what needs to happen is these places owners or the government need to be sued by any and all hurt under those circumstances. if this happens, you can be sure that the number of places that do not allow guns will be far fewer then now. i personally believe open carry is certainly not tactical, but it is your right.
there will always be someone doing something you disagree with. they have a right to b3e different. we have to learn tolerance. i am going to say it again. VOTE TRUMP if you want to own a gun. unless you are the elite!!!
I get the feeling after watching this video that you believe that we should simply ignore our rights, and leave it to the professionals? Especially when the average 911 response time can exceed bleed out time. I feel you should of left out your insecurities about law abiding citizen’s legally open carrying. As well, I don’t think the open carry law was meant to appease hunters and people moving to and from a range. Your comments about the California’s complete disregard for their citizens rights made me laugh. Would you really expect anything else to come out of that state?
However, I understand and appreciate your opinion on the matter, just the same I will opt to legally open carry where ever I go that it is legal to do so. Hopefully I will never need to use it. But as a responsibly armed legal trained citizen I would rather carry and not need it than need it and not have it, open or concealed, and let’s be honest, open carry is much more comfortable, especially since I will be using a nice retention style holster, thanks for that tip!
retention?? do any of you believe that your retention holster is going to stop an individual from taking the gun out of the holster. especially at gun point of one or more people??? it is like buying all these devices that hide guns in plain sight. criminals don’t read or study what is out there do they?? sure it might stop someone but nothing is perfect in this world. hidden is better then plain sight and surprise is better then letting them know what where and why. no matter what let us hang together, VOTE TRUMP in november unless you do not care if you are allowed to own a gun. hell, then don’t vote then.
SMH ??? What did I hear? Don’t carry unless you NEED to? When and where will that be? Let me guess your response will be that I should call 911 and let the “professionals” handle it.
Open carry makes you an automatic target. Make sure you cover it up with clothes
Don’t have that issue in Australia because we can only own a pistol if we are an active member of a club. However, I disagree with not exercising your right to publicly display a firearm. If you do not exercise your rights then they will be taken away. We in Australia know this better than most.
Agreed, if your an idiot and carry on like one then you don’t deserve to own a weapon but why punish everyone? It is always the minority not being suitably addressed that cost the rights of the majority. Those You Tube people you talk of should be addressed appropriately instead of taking away the right to open carry of everybody.
I also have OCd quit a while; only a LOE with an anti-gun agenda complained: “You realize how many calls we’ll get cause you are OCing!” I can’t help lazy cops – this was at 1am and as I went home I met 2 homeless men who approached me then backed off at the sight of my gun. I did not have to argue with them; call that cop; OR let an attack begin and be FORCED to draw from concealment and shoot one! I (and they) are grateful that and all those legal issues NEVER HAPPENED! I have had a few citizens thank me for OCing and making a POLITICAL STATEMENT.
I have not yet heard the argument: “If you don’t use it, you LOSE IT!” In those “Wild-West” days many OCd without all the silly fuss some are making today…. all without permits and in the absence of harassing laws BUT now few carry and in many states we have to fight to carry Open or Concealed… looks like that right was LOST with DISUSE!
Another dead serious NOTE: I am a private security officer and I NEVER EVER OC WITHOUT AT LEAST A LEVEL-2 HOLSTER. I would NEVER-EVER RIDE A BUS, TRAIN, ELEVATOR OR PATROL A CROWDED MALL WITHOUT A SECURITY RETENTON HOLSTER! Be careful on your choice: a fellow officer patrolling a dock bent over to look at something and his large key ring swung forward, hitting that tooooo large release button on his Serpa holster, dropping his gun in the drink! My holster(s) require a special move to release that is not apparent or accidentally done.
Also your video’s premises’ side step the whole issue of retention holsters by saying you are just addressing OC without one! That seems unfair and unreasonable to me; OC with a retention holster DOES MAKE A NEEDED POLITICAL STATEMENT (use it or lose-it); SHOWS OC IS VALID; OC DOES DETERS CRIME AND OC CAN BE SAFE!
I was a cop here is Michigan for 30 years. When they changed to law to allow open carry there were a lot of people carrying and getting in my face about it too.
Its like they were just looking to start an argument with me.
UGH…OC. Is it a RIGHT? Yes. That’s not really the debate. The Constitution affirms it as a right. In some misguided places, is OC and CC a “privilege”…yes, but that is the fault of the voters who gave power to elected officials to limit their rights.
Outside of a very narrow scope and set of circumstances, is OC “smart”? No.
I am a retired police officer with over 2 decades on the job. Other than the occasional sportsman who was out in the desert hunting, or fishing, or a working cowboy with a hogleg on his hip for “snake medicine” or a cure for other critters…I found the extreme vast majority of open carriers to be “looking to make a political statement, or looking to get into MY face and jump on the Second Amendment” soapbox.
The so-called “sheepdog” that has become so popular nowadays….you know…the 500lb morbidly obese fellow, who is stuffed into his 4XL 5.11 shirt and Size 58 cargo pants and looking like a marshmallow in a piggy bank, wearing his knockoff “tactical thigh rig” at Wal Mart alluding to his “time with the teams”…thinking his cool tactical demeanor is going to thwart crime and make nefarious characters shudder at his lumbering approach (if he’s not riding in one of the electric scooters because he’s too fat to lumber”. THESE are the vast majority of open carry zealots. They aren’t carrying for legitimate self defense of themselves and their families. They are looking for an IDENTITY. They are looking for an OPPORTUNITY to climb on a soapbox, and challenge “authority” or make a statement that “I am rough and tough and NOBODY is going to mess with me” <– I call those the guys who were picked on in high school, and are looking for a way to hit back now that they are all grown up and can pack a heater.
Look…NO ONE is more PRO 2A than I am. I believe the right to keep and bear arms IS an absolute RIGHT. However…it has been MY PERSONAL and PROFESSIONAL EXPERIENCE that most open carriers fall into the previously mentioned categories if they have the option of concealed carry, yet choose to OC instead.
Many posters have already mentioned the "shoot me first" phenomenon. I agree. I am retired now, and I still carry 24/7-365. But I ALWAYS carry concealed. When I was working plainclothes assignments (gangs-narcotics then homicide)…I still carried concealed. Why? No one, and I mean NO ONE needed to know I was carrying. IF, and I mean IF the SHTF…and I had my roscoe concealed…I still had a chance to use it IF the situation allowed.
There was a detention officer who worked the jail (he posted on internet forums, and alluded that he was a "county investigator"…which he "sorta" was as he WAS employed by the county and "investigated" prisoner gang affiliations within the jail) in the county where I worked on the road. He was ALWAYS using words like OPSEC and PERSEC and SITWARE, and bragging about his ninja, or jedi like skills at threat recognition and situational awareness. He LOVED to open carry his Glock 23, and bragged that NO ONE would ever disarm him, because "no one would ever get close enough", and he even bet 20 bucks on it.
One evening, we happened to be at the same Wal Mart. I am 6'5" tall, and not one to blend in very well…so, even someone with "limited vision and situational awareness" is pretty likely to notice me, especially if you have known me for 10 years as he had. While he was exercising his ninja like SITWARE-PERSEC-OPSEC in the dairy aisle, texting on his smartphone…I walked up behind him and lifted his Glock out of his BLACKHAWK holster, dropped his mag into my hand, cleared his chamber, and asked for my 20 bucks.
So….my point was pretty well made. You will notice I said he was in the DAIRY aisle. You know….where they keep the milk behind REFLECTIVE GLASS DOORS…where you can SEE what is behind you IF you don't have your head up your tailpipe…and a 6'5" 275lb guy walked up and lifted his roscoe right out of his retention holster. OPSEC? PERSEC? SITWARE? Really?
He carried to show off. He SO desperately wanted to be noticed…and he was. He, at least, had a modicum of "security and awareness" training to have his position as a detention officer (7 week academy) and he still got his gun snatched by a big ole' country boy who is about as stealthy as your average diesel pickup truck.
In my experience, he is exemplar of most of the open carry crowd. He wasn't even phased by the thought that I could have taken his own gun, and greased him on the spot. He wasn't angry with HIMSELF for having his "Badass Switch", as he called it, turned off. he was mad that he was proven wrong.
THIS and many other run-ins with OC Zealots is why I don't think OC is the smart way to go. The same goes for the "oh so cute" young couple with the boyfriend packing his pistol for all the world to see, while they paw all over one another at the mall. The last thing on HIS mind is making sure his weapon is secure in a BIG room with hundreds of people all around. And I bet at least ONE of them has the thought…"I could snatch his gun and…..".
What about the cool homey packing his Hi Point in a $5 gun show special clip on nylon holster, that is attached precariously to the pants he has saggin' around his butt??? What's he going to do, other than get filled full of holes while trying to free his gat from the mess on his waist?
How does this make YOU look when you are the 1% of open carriers who is (to your way of thinking) carrying for self defense, and NOT to make a political statement, or looking to get into MY face and tell me all about YOUR rights, when the truth is, I had other shit to do while on duty and didn't give half a damn one way or another about YOU until you climbed up in MY face. As Mas Ayoob says…"cops know the law better than lawyers"…and this is true within the scope of our duties.
As I mentioned…I am 100% PRO 2A. I'd like nothing better than to see good folks get trained, get armed, and exercise their RIGHT to carry…but I want them to do it safely, and effectively. Here's the deal…a concealed defensive firearm, of a sufficient caliber to effectively stop a threat, when you NEED it, and employed when a bad guy is not expecting it gives you a whole helluva lot better chance of coming home alive than the gun the bad guy KNOWS you are going to make a try for.
Let the flaming begin…but these are my observations from over 2 decades on the street behind the badge.
Valid points Rob. While I appreciate the intentions behind the OC movement, I don’t necessarily agree with the execution.
Something not mentioned though, not only should you have a retention holster, you should also have training in handgun retention and disarmament.
I open carry at least 1/2 the time. Not to make a political statement. But because I have to wear a tucked in shirt and tie with slacks (not a suit). I can’t conceal anything but a little mouse gun wearing that. I carry at 2 o’clock in a holster with two levels of retention.
While I’m sure it happens, I’ve never seen anyone open carry BEHIND them and w/o retention. I always see 3 o’clock and a (typically) blackhawk serpa.
In Mississippi, I have often carried open, even though I have a permit to carry concealed. My primary reason is that in the summer it is too hot to wear a secondary cover, and putting it under my t-shirt leaves the plastic pressed against my skin, again uncomfortable in 100 deg. weather. I do use a retention paddle holster and I keep my firearm at my side with the grip tipped forward (makes it much harder to grab from behind). Rarely does anyone note or comment about my gun, though occasionally someone will ask. The video makes some valid points, and perhaps from now on I will just untuck my shirt.
i found an undershirt makes it more comfortable. it is more clothing but it is very light weight.
If you are going to show a black holster or other item please do not wear a black shirt. I have seen you do this on other videos as well. It makes it impossible to see the item.
Great Video I would choose to conceal carry whenever possible and legal. One person on Youtube all he does is walk around with a camera and open carry his AR and pistol and gets confronted my LEOs all the time. He doesn’t ever make videos of him doing any kind of range practice with his firearms or anything …..
You sir, are a REFRESHING change from the psuedo-macho youtube dip-dunks that are so often held up as examples of the 2A community. I’d walk the line with you any day, HUAH!
to have freedom you have to have tolerance. the right to be different,. progress comes from individuality not conformity. doing everything the same old way will not lead to a better way. no one can take our inalienable right, NO ONE!! WE NEED TO HANG TOGETHER OR WE WILL HANG SEPARATELY. VOTE TRUMP.
Well…I Think In The More Rural Areas It’s Acceptable But Not So Much In Metro Or Suburbs…Many Officers Have Died In Wrestling Matches Where A Loon Grabbed Officers Sidearm And Used It Against Him/Her.
My grandfather, worked as a Pinkerton security guard in the ’60s, as required for his job he openly carried a revolver in a holster with a button down restraint. He walked into a convenience market and a criminal snuck up behind him and in one swift move grabbed his pistol and proceeded to rob the store. My grandpa being a former professional boxer was skilled enough to knock the gun away and hammer him unconscious with his fists. Open carry, can lead to a gun grab in more ways than one.
This is just shameful Rob. It like you want the movement to move backwards and cause a rift among ourselves. You should be ashamed.
I disagree very much with this video. There have been NO repercussions from me open carrying here in VA, and business that ask me to leave I do. Taking my hard earned money with me. I am asked sometimes why I carry, my simple response, it makes everyone around me safer. I have to say the untucked shirt does a poor job of concealing your handgun, and can result in you not getting your gun out when you need it, or it bringing more attention from others who witness a hidden gun. I am not at all arguing that a gun can’t be taken away from you, however, if you are so limited in your ability to be aware of your surroundings as some one getting their hands on your gun, you will more than likely be a victim anyway. A carried gun exposed does not send a political message, it sends a practical message, I won’t be a victim. And here is the last and best reason, you will be sued by some perps family for “ambushing their family member” with your concealed weapon, you are a rogue, and just waited to shoot someone not expecting confrontation. This one is real, and it has happened many times in America. I am the sheepdog, I choose not to be a victim, and demand vicious criminals leave me alone, by displaying I have the means to defend myself at all times. There are places where open carry does not make sense, the beach for instance, but these locations are few and far between. Oak
Excellent video. Good people carry legal guns in a good and safe way. Bad people abuse our rights. Be responsible and use common sense or leave your weapon at home.
O/C is a right concealed carry
is a privilege. I o/c most of the time, if people see open carrier’s doing normal daily tasks in a normal manner how can you see that as bad.
If you have to worry that you’ll lose a right by exercising it, then you’ve already lost it.
I think the important thing is not to avoid open carry but to present yourself as a respectable member of society when you do. Open carry isn’t what causes law changes, d-bags looking for confrontation is. Open carry by respectable, honest citizens won’t hurt the cause and if it does then I must ask: what’s the point of having the right in the first place if you can’t actually exercise it?
Are police officers making a political statement when they open carry?
Well Rob says unless you “have” to carry openly, open carry is a political statement. So police CHOOSE to carry openly… Are they making a political statement? Because according to Rob, they are. According to Rob, police are making themselves a target by open carrying? They could choose to CC. Are police drawing “unwanted attention? If a “gun grab” is a legit threat. (I don’t think it is) I do know it happens. I know of a guy it happened to here in Milwaukee… but if “gun grabbing” is anything other than an anomaly, maybe Rob should go preach to police to CC intead of OC.
police do not choose to OC. it is part of their job. just the uniform says you will have a gun. i believe in freedom and tolerance. carry how you want. OC can be a statement but it does not have to be.
This makes as much sense as asking if Soldiers and Marines are trying to make a political statement
Open carry screams “shoot me first”.
Although there are weather and activity considerations that may, may rarely make it an option, it’s tactically a poor choice.
From a safety standpoint it has the potential to cause LE to make contact, what is the upside to that? None!
In 2005 I was driving in Utah from Moab to SLC. I had a 911 registered in a woman’s name in KY. Insured in another man’s name from KY. I have a NH drivers license.
Utah has this silly business of “must notify on contact” if your CCW.
Looks like a Interceptor CV. Looks as it gets closer like an undercover CV.
Looks like a Christmas Tree in Vegas.
Notified as required.
Jacked out of car by two USP. Never ran my plate or ID.
Asked to see my gun.
Asked me to unload it so he could see it.
Very stressing wondering what they were up to, in the desert, asking me to handle a weapon on the side of the road.
Too many chances for mistakes, misinterpretation and un-intended consequences.
Boiled down to this guy just was really an Accutek G-23 fan.
Open carry screams “shoot me first”? Really? So all those police who open carry are making themselves a target?
Why do armed guards wear uniforms and open carry? are they making themselves targets for a gun grab? Are they making making a political statement?
Or do they too believe there is “deterrent value” in OC?
Does an NRA t-shirt scream “shoot me first”?
Sometimes we pro-gun folks can be just as guilty of perpetuating non-sensical myths as the anti’s we loathe and chastise for their assertions of catastrophe
Hey. Go ahead. See who is targeted first. The person OC or CC.
David, you are not thinking of the bigger picture… Most criminals… If they saw you were OC they would LEAVE THE AREA. Would you rather DETER a crime, or have to draw and shoot? Think about it
I come from a perspective of 21 years of EP work. We call photog vests “shoot me first” same with a poorly deployed ear piece. My choice is to be covert, to de-escalate, and if pro-active has failed, act. OC makes you a target not a deterrent absent some my not understanding the context OC is being used here. If the point is you do not have an CC option where you are, I guess we are back to making political statements?
David… No offense, but “what you call photog” vests doesn’t mean that is what actually happens. Rob wants to talk about rare circumstances. Can you provide me with ONE instance where a law-abiding citizen carrier (OC) was “shot first” or where a law-abiding citizen with a photog vest was “shot first” If you can’t, you’re just hypothesizing. And you’re welcome to… But that doesn’t make it reality. I think we have LOTS of evidence to prove that MOST criminals avoid potential victims who are likely to defend themselves. I think a logical analysis of your suggestion vs. mine would result in a conclusion that OC is far more likely to DETER a crime than to result in you getting “shot first”. But in Rob’s video he suggests wearing an NRA shirt. How is THAT good advice if someone is concerned about getting “shot first?”
He was being sarcastic I would guess.
I think the message here is clear. Always carry for the right reasons. Be safe, be responsible, and always be respectful. When you carry a firearm in public regardless of the style you choose, you are representing all gun owners, because your actions, either bad or good reflect on us all, and could bring serious consequences. Brass Rainbows to all!
depending on body type most people can carry appendix and it is really the best position for retention. everyone has to decide what they want to do and what is best for them.
OC is a Right..Second Amendment ! CC, is a Permitted, Licensed, Bureaucracy.. I also want to say Officers are not trained to “shoot on sight’ of a person with a gun! So don’t give me that ” You could get shot by a police officer” crap. LEO’s are purposely put in precarious situations on a daily basis. So its inevitable that they and there gun will provoke a fight. So if “Carrying a defensive firearm openly can make you a target and/or draw unnecessary attention. ” LEO’s should CC, and not wear a Uniform!!!!!! If your a LEO or a firearm Training Instructor, you should stick to the Training and leave the the Politics to the Voters!!
The point of a badge, name tag, patch, uniform etc is to establish credibility / authority. Carrying openly in your chaps and silk blouse does ID you, but not in the same way.
Consider how many children playing with toy guns have been shot by officers mistakenly. Same concept slightly different flavor. BAD.
BY JACOB QUINN SANDERS ARKANSAS DEMOCRAT-GAZETTE
A West Memphis police officer shot and killed a 12-year-old boy late Friday night, mistaking the child’s silver toy gun for a real handgun, authorities said Saturday.
The shooting occurred about 9:53 p.m. while two officers were on a stakeout hoping to break a string of convenience-store armed robberies near North 24th Street and Goodwin Avenue.
The officers waited in the dark parking lot of the Steeplechase Apartments just south of Interstate 40 and Interstate 55. They saw two people, yelling and running, and got out of the car to confront them, Assistant Police Chief Mike Allen said.
As for the politics of it and who can comment with authority… thats just non-sensical. Robert lives eats and breaths these issues in public and in private, he comments using his real name not an online avatar. Better to hear a reasoned, well articulated opinion and disagree or learn from it than listen to professional politicians and pundits talk about “high capacity” ammunition…
David, you are one of the more rational people that have responded to Rob’s video. After many years as a cop in southern California, I will gladly tell anybody that open carry will get unwanted attention from the police. Yes, you may “have the right”, but you are still going to get more attention than you really want. Cops cannot tell the good guys from the bad guys, for the most part. The only thing they see is a guy with a gun, even if it’s in the waistband. It’s a firearm and it’s visible and being exhibited by somebody not in uniform. If anybody thinks the cop is going to politely ask to see your CCW permit, your not living in the same country I do. We now live in a far more violent world that just 20 years ago. The police are trained to survive in our new, gone crazy country. And those that respond with, “I’ve been open carrying for years and never had a problem”, I say your either a liar or live in some out of the way cave and have little or no contact with humans.
Good video. And great responses both for and against.
I open carry. Mostly on occasion that I am just too dang hot to wear my suit jacket any longer. I am not making a political statement, I am not compensating for something, I am not picking any fights.
I have been grocery shopping, eating dinner with the family, pumping gasoline, even went into a bank once when the drive through was down.
My one and ONLY (in more than 10 years) incident was with an off duty plain clothes police officer that did not understand my right to carry openly and that the establishment we were in was not making a complaint, so he really had no grounds to detain me, ID, etc, etc.
I carry a compact Glock, typically in an OWB holster.
You know what I have noticed? No one notices. I am vigilant about situational awareness when in public. 98% of the population I see is out and about is not. They are texting or talking on the phone. They are listening to their ‘personal soundtrack’ and fiddling with the music selection or something else besides looking where they are going or noticing the people around them.
When I do OC, I am usually in a suit (minus the jacket – as I noted) so I suppose it is possible that many folks mistake me for a police officer. That would be the small percentage of people who actually are aware of their surroundings.
as for the one comment I read about getting shot because an officer (off duty or not) mistakes me reaching for my firearm when I am reaching for a cell… Why would any officer shoot first and ask questions later?
As for someone taking my gun… yes, you need to be aware and you should have a proper holster to minimize that risk.
There is no question in my mind that CC is a much better tactical platform to start from. For me it is not always practical because I do not like pocket guns and I am not fond of IWB carry. For others it might be that the State is OC legal but concealed requires an extensive permitting system that takes time. Would you demand that those individuals forego carrying at all until they can meet the residency requirements / training requirements for a concealed carry permit. In my State the local government buildings can, by law, refuse me from carrying concealed on their property but they, by law, cannot restrict me openly carrying a firearm. Should I disarm there? Honestly, with the locations of some of those buildings my overall general threat level is higher in those places than the ones i typically frequent on a daily basis. No, I do not think I will disarm there.
If you are going to open carry, be professional and be an ambassador for our 2nd Amendment Rights. If you do it make sure you know where it is legal and illegal to do so. Some places are legal, but less appropriate than others. You should never be confrontational, especially with law enforcement. That does not mean you have to waive your Rights. Know your Rights and know that you may not avoid the ride in the car if an officer is determined to make that happen. Know that you risk that every time you open carry and accept that risk.
Regardless of what you choose, be safe, be alert and keep training.
I don’t agree on several points.
I do believe if you are carrying openly that you should have retention. I also believe that carrying as an activist isn’t a good idea, nor is it helpful or appropriate. But by the same the same token, I believe that carrying openly is something that the public needs to come to terms with, and that open carrying responsibly is not something that necessarily provokes a negative response, nor does it have to. If you’re the type of person that is going to get drawn into a confrontation by someone questioning your manhood because you open carry, then you shouldn’t be carrying at all.
I do not believe that there isn’t any appropriate reason to carry openly under normal circumstances. For example, in climates routinely over 90 degrees, having to wear additional cover is not only uncomfortable, but it marks you as odd to begin with, and not everyone is in good enough shape to just untuck the tshirt and conceal the weapon without printing heavily, nor is it appropriate in situations where it looks slovenly, and you need to have your shirt tucked in
But I do believe you should conceal, or at least make an attempt to partially conceal, if it is practical to do so…and that if you do carry without concealment, that you use a retention holster, and don’t seek to provoke a confrontation. But I don’t believe that means you should meekly allow Law Enforcement to walk all over your rights either. I don’t have a problem with recording an encounter with law enforcement as a form of legal protection, but if you set out to provoke that encounter just so you can add to your youtube collection, you’re in the wrong.
I take issue with several statements here. Most importantly the fear of losing a right because it is exercised. A right is a right. We live in a Republic not a democracy. It is not majority rules. We have a constitution to protect individual rights. The right of the individual is held most important even over the will of the majority. Remember the civil war and all those people who wanted slavery? All the former slaves were given rights and many were killed or beaten for trying to vote or take advantage of their rights. You all can google Republic for more info…
Yes there are people that should not OC or CC for that matter. There are guns that make a poor OC choice. There are times and places that OC is inappropriate. Yes to all that but it doesn’t change the fact that where it is a right it is a right. People are all too willing to give up freedom for a feeling of security. We live in a society being permeated by the twisted misconception that guns are bad and those that have them are dangerous. It starts out so early on with teaching small children not to play with toy guns or chew a pop tart into the shape of a gun. Some activists are trying to get this point across. Some do a better job than others. Those that work within the confines of the law make a point. Look at the way they are treated. I have seen the police respond inappropriately too many times. Yes it even happened to me. I pursued the issue and got a letter of apology from the department. I also work as a LEO instructor so I get to see it from the other side too. I have had to teach my deputies about OC and how to properly deal with it on occasion too. That said I live in a small community where I OC every day. I OC because it is generally easier to do but more on that later. Even going to cities like Faetteville, NC or Roanoke, VA where I OC I have only had one run in with LE and that was settled by me untucking my shirt and dealing with the sergeants supervisor later that day.
Back to my reasons for OC:
1) It is my tactical choice – Most bad guys will look elsewhere seeking out soft targets rather than attacking an armed, hard target. Just like a barking dog or an alarm company sign, it sends a message when done right.
2) Access to OC is faster and easier than CC. I wear my gun at 2-3 o’clock, in front where I can control it. I can draw and put lead on target faster than most bad guys, gun in hand can shoot.
3) Comfort. It is more comfortable to wear OWB on my belt than inside my pants. No matter how hot it is, I am not stuck wearing jackets or vests to cover a full size Glock 21, flashlight, magazine and utility knife.
4) If I choose to CC I have to worry about printing and who may inadvertently see or notice a concealed gun. I have to concern myself with being mistaken for a bad guy as where OC generally eliminates the question as bad guys don’t OC.
5) You meet a nicer group of people when you OC. I cannot tell you how many people come up to me in restaurants or when shopping to ask me what kind of gun is that? or where did you get your holster? or other friendly questions. I even had a hippie girl at a fair comment “cool gun man”.
6) If you think you can truly carry concealed and no one will know, you are very skilled or delusional. LEO and bad guys know what to look for. They know how to tell who is armed even if they don’t see a gun. When my kids were little we used to go to the county fair and see who could spot the most people carrying concealed. Yes even my 8 year old daughter could spot most of them. She could usually tell who was LE and who wasn’t too.
Where I live, it is not uncommon to see people OC. Deputies I have asked tell me that 30% of the people they come in contact with are armed. They are cautious but it is normal to carry a gun here. NYC is different. So part of this does depend on where you are, how you dress, what you carry…
My message – make an informed choice and do what works for you and make sure you do it right. Open or concealed there is a right and wrong way. Be respectful with everyone you meet since you are a representative of the gun community. Good luck and be safe.
Great Counter-Point Essay! Thanks for contributing, Bennett.
Heh…waaaay better than I put it. Kudos.
I respectfully disagree with the comment to untuck and carry concealed. I carry concealed if my clothes and weather allow (obviously winter is easier clothes-wise), but as a woman it’s impractical (and I might add more conspicuous) to buy super baggy clothes so that you can cover your gun…I’ve only experienced positive confrontations as I don’t wear my gun as “jewelry” or flaunt it.
i have seen it on video not vivid. he was standing in line and the guy behind him got the gun and was out of the store before he could react. also recently i saw an armed security guard be robbed out side the store he was working for. they took his wallet also, but they wanted his gun. both incidences were caught on security cameras. i cannot tell you where to find them but i would not lie to you. i watched both. i do believe you have the right to make your own decisions also, that is what freedom is all about. you cannot have freedom without tolerance. there will always be someone doing something you do not approve of, but it is your right to decide. they make laws that it is illegal for you to kill yourself. WTF, if they want they can throw my body in jail. we have a lot of things that need changing. i only hope your generation does a better job then mine, the boomers. we really F ed up. VOTE TRUMP.
I am a LEO . As a Constable that is POST Certified, I usually carry concealed. Here is the logic, if I show up ready for a gun fight to serve civil papers , I will have provoked a fight. The person is Already mad getting served. Using my Badge and a stance of authority is usually enough to not have any issues. If I am asked if I carry a gun in public because of the badge, I will tell them yes. If they want to see where , I tell them no I will not show them.
Now if I go to do an eviction or property grab, I will open carry with a class 2 locking holster with extra mags and hand cuffs visible. There is no guessing to my authority.
For me carrying concealed is better for me and the public around me. It tends to keep the stress level down for every one. It is assumed I am armed but not knowing for sure is a tactical advantage.
The stores that give discounts to a LEO and the LEO excepts the gift is in violation of most Department policy.
Stay concealed until otherwise needed.
If you are open carrying just to show off that you can, that is only for your ego as a privet person. If you are a LEO that is different. If you are open carrying it could get you shot by a LEO that thought you were going for your gun when it was really your cell phone.
If you are going to carry a gun be smart and check your ego at the door.
OC is almost always a “statement” rather than a rational, tactical method of carry. It’s tactically unsound and removes your ability to be the “grey man” in a SHTF situation. If you’re in a store, restaurant, etc., and are carrying concealed then, while you may not have THE tactical advantage, you do have A tactical advantage in that the bad guy doesn’t know you’re armed.
If you’re standing in line at the local “stop & rob” convenience store, buying that carton of milk you HAVE TO HAVE in the morning, when the bad guy walks in and he sees you’re OC firearm, you just became Target#1, heretofore known as the decedent! You’ve just taken the option of being “just another customer” off the table and you ARE or WILL BE involved in that incident, whether you wanted to be or not!
Cops OC because the first level of “force” on the force continuum is their “presence.” That ‘presence’ includes a badge, gun, etc., and it makes a statement that they hold Legal Authority. And, along with that OC, they have holsters with multiple retention devices. Undercover/off-duty cops carry concealed to be able to blend-in, to be “grey” and not stand out. That’s what we should do as concealed carry advocates, not make statements with our firearms, that’s not their intended purpose!
TAC., if you could please point to an actual event where this has happened to a civilian carrier in a convenience store robbery, I might lend some credence to your opinion. Fortunately, the only place this scenario has occurred is in your vivid imagination. In the real world, the perp walks in, maybe sees the gun, and leaves. It’s happened more than once, including at my business. Never in modern OC history have I been able to find a situation where a civilian was targeted by a bad guy for carrying. Period.
Almost every video of security footage I see is of a gang of punks stumbling over themselves running out of a store as soon as they see a gun pointed at them. This isnt a crack team of assassins, taking out the hard targets to get to the main target.
@ Ross, as many as 25% of Law Enforcement Officers who are shot and killed are shot with their own weapon, usually carried in a minimum of a level 2 retention holster with at least some training in weapon retention. There’s a youtube video of a former OCer in Ohio who had his pistol taken from him at gun point. OC removes ANY element of surprise, and since action is always faster than reaction surprise is the only thing in a defender’s favor. Rob was spot on.
Sorry David but your 25% is an overstatement. It is nowhere near that. Additionally that number is irrelevant since LEO make arrests, put on handcuffs and get close up with bad guys unlike armed civilians. Your statement about a youtube video is as bad as the anecdotal evidence offered by those trying to take our guns away. How about all the criminals that see an armed good guy and decide not to commit a crime. By your standard, police should go undercover rather than wearing a uniform too. Are you going to tell me the presence of an armed LEO or security guard has no impact on a criminals decision to commit a crime or not? OC removes ANY element of surprise, really? Your right action beats reaction so when I act to draw my gun and shoot the way I train, well, I can get my gun out and on target from an OC faster than you can shoot me. Yes I can, done it many times. Additionally, who says that is my only gun? I carry a 9mm in my pocket too, SURPRISE!
wait… what do you mean: “Your right action beats reaction so when I act to draw my gun and shoot the way I train, well, I can get my gun out and on target from an OC faster than you can shoot me.”
This is not for everyone and by no means do I advocate trying to outdraw a drawn gun. Under certain circumstances, with proper training and practice, this can be effective.
To clarify: the bad guy has a gun on you. he has not made the decision to shoot but merely to point a gun at you and threaten. If you draw and fire that is ACTION. Now he has to react. My action of get off the X draw and fire puts the assailent in a reaction position and depending on distance, speed and reflexes, action usually wins. Once I decide to act and I initiate the draw, my time to lead on target is just under one second from OC. In tests, I found average reaction times for someone to simply press the trigger run about .25-.5+ seconds. Add to this a hesitation factor, surprise factor, target re-acquisition and movement and you will find it not impossible to do. I train to get off the X, draw and fire with SIRT guns and airsoft. I train my students the same way. Once again, I don’t advise people to try and outshoot a drawn gun but if that is your only choice it can be done successfully. There are other elements like distraction and timing too. I have my student point an airsoft gun at me, finger on the trigger. From the holster, I will laterally step, draw and fire, hitting them before they hit me if they hit me at all. At ECQC you can block the assailants gun as well. The more a student learns how to avoid being shot, the more likely they are to win when they play the part of the bad guy too because they know what to look for. So this does change the more a student trains
Want to test your reaction time? try http://getyourwebsitehere.com/jswb/rttest01.html#
Wow… that’s horrifying.
Playing timer games with laser guns is no way to develop a personal defense strategy.
Any time that you use metrics from choreographed/anticipated actions to draw conclusions that need to be applied under unexpected stress, you set yourself up for failure.
TO EACH THEIR OWN, but in your argument you said they are quicker and then you added a delay time for a decision. boy, if someone starts to move fast while i have them covered, i am going to pull the trigger. that is why we train so there will be no hesitation, just reaction. it all depends on the natural ability of the individuals. some people have faster reaction times then others. some are damn quick in drawing. even if you beat the guy, just as a knife attacker can kill you before he dies after you have killed him, so can someone with a gun only easier. i will never quit, if need be, i will take someone with me to the happy hunting grounds.
I have seen this demonstrated and anyone who believes otherwise should run their own drills to see for themselves. Setup two shooters shoulder to shoulder, have one posture and draw the gun to the treat, yelling verbal commands to stop and get down, or whatever your preferred narrative is.. Now have the second shooter holstered, and draw and fire at the target. At the same time have the initial shooter fire a round into the target as soon as the second shooter engages the target. The initial shooter’s reaction time will be longer than expected and this is what police officers have to deal with everyday in America. You can’t stage this, that would be cheating. The instructor should be the individual who initiates the action shot, and the student the re-action. I have also trained to disarm a pistol with hand to hand, with a dummy pistol you can disarm a threat that has drawn on you before they can re-act and pull the trigger. I’ve seen this done with double action and single action pistols. I’ve seen this hundreds of times while practicing with the Marine Martial Arts Program and using Combative Kenpo.
A right not exercised is a right lost.
The video makes some valid points but as to the appropriateness of open carrying….That is opinion and nothing else.
Daniel, don’t believe the hype… a RIGHT ABUSED is a right that will be lost.
How are people who open carry abusing any right? What right are we abusing?
What is the difference between not having a right and not exercising a right because you are afraid to loose it?
He that would make his own liberty secure, must guard even his enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes a
precedent that will reach to himself.Thomas Paine
US patriot & political philosopher (1737 – 1809)
The ones who strap on a long gun and go looking for people to stare at them are abusing the right. the ones who carry cell phone cameras in the anticipation of confrontation videos they can post are abusing the right. The ones carrying openly and then being uncooperative with police officers are abusing the right.
Your Paine quote is out of place…. I am not arguing that your RIGHT should be taken away, I’m arguing that your right shouldn’t be exercised for the sole purpose of attention seeking and/or political action.
As I originally posted Rob,
Your video and some of the points that you just reiterated are valid points but your OPINION that it is inappropriate to open carry in general or even to make a political statement are what I disagree with, along with your primarily negative characterization of those who open carry as “making up for a lack of security in their lives” or a lack of “toughness”, and honestly I think the “if you mess with me your in for some bad trouble” reason might be one of the best reasons to open carry….I have an ADT security system on my house and a sign saying so in my yard, The bad guys are more likely to bypass my house and move on to easier pickings.
And in light of law enforcement abuses that are highlighted in this video:
It is imperative that we exercise our rights…All of our rights to make sure that all of our rights are NOT encroached upon by the government. To bring those entities who do try to encroach upon our rights into court to validate our rights, to make sure that they are NOT encroached upon in the future!
To exercise a right as a political statement is as valid a reason as any.
Thanks for the discussion Rob.
You provide an invaluable service with your website.
Thanks for your thoughts, Daniel. I think it is okay that we disagree on OC. Train Well!
This video does nothing more than tell people to be politically correct. The mention of “abusing the right will cause you to lose the right” is incorrect. If it is a right, NO ONE can take it away, especially government who are supposed to be our servants and standing behind the Constitution and protecting our rights. Secondly, conceal carry is nice but when a state forces an individual to take a course, be subjected to a full background check, buy a permit and carry it, is a violation of the 2nd amendment and cost prohibitive, especially when there are NO such restrictions to open carry. Too many gun instructors have become adamant about these restrictions because it provides them an income and without conceal carry courses and certification requirements they would likely have to find other work. The only abuse of the right to open carry is when an individual uses that weapon to commit a crime.
If I was hell bent on doing harm to someone and I like that shiny gun you have openly on your side. I will take it from you and take you out if need be. There is nothing you are going to be able to do about it because the bad guy is always the attacker and has the element of surprise. I would probably just flat out knock you out with a hook to the jaw and then take my time removing your firearm. You open carry and you loose the element of surprise during an encounter and in some cases may become the target of attention because you are the first person I want to disable for my purposes. Just saying.
I think you are correct….It’s just that most (99.999%) of bad guys don’t look for confrontation, they are looking for an easy “Mark”. So in light of the fact that most of us don’t live in gang banger city where those little pukes are trying to PROVE their value to the “GANG”, I’m quiet sure that carrying openly is more of a benefit.
Rosa Parks might disagree with you, carrying a recorder to document police interactions is abusing a right? Even after all the documented cases of officers overstepping their authority simply because THEY don’t like Open Carry?
Mr. Pincus, would it be a fair statement to say you make your living teaching Concealed Carry courses?
In light of recent gun control measures in California, do you honestly think that California was going to allow that right to continue, regardless of any confrontations with law enforcement?
We’ll never know… I think it is pretty illogical to say “CA oesn’t Count”…. there is a HUGE gun community in CA and they are very active. Ask anyone about ranges, training, sales or competition in Souther CA especially and they’ll all tell you how busy things are.
I don’t disagree, and they do count. I started carrying there almost 25 years ago as a college student at CSUN.
But I think there was more to the loss of open carry there then some activist idiots hassling Law enforcement.
i believe you have the right, but CC is exercising your right also. i also do not believe the government can take the right. it is inalienable, it is not given and can not be taken away. the framers of the constitution did not think up this right, they just made it clear you have the right. i think it is giving up surprise. thinking you can out draw and fire a gun faster then a trigger is pulled, well, not many can do that. there are a few, i certainly am not one of the few.
the right to self protection was stated in the Magna Charta and even before. the right to self protection with the weapons of war and not a farm implement. i have lost all faith in the justice system when 1/2 believe we have no right. that is legislating political views not holding up the constitution as the supreme law of the land. heck, if that were what is suppose to happen, why do we even have a congress? the supreme court can just tell us how we have to live. F em. want to keep your righT VOTE TRUMP OR GIVE YOUR GUNS TO HILLAWITCH666.
Simply because you have the right to do something does not mean it is the right thing to do. Each person will choose for themselves how to carry, but I am a strong advocate of concealed carry where it is legal. Be safe and be strong.
OK, this is a little weak. In response to claims that there have been no incidents of “gun grabbing”, all that they could come up with is ONE incident in the entire country? If anything, this seems to support the idea that gun grabbing is almost non-existent.
Ross, the point of mentioning ONE is that many OC Advocates will quickly jump into a thread under a video like this and make hyperbolic statements about how it “never” happens… I just wanted to avoid that. You can do your own research and find examples.
kinda like the CC-elitists who will quickly jump into a thread under a video like this and claim OC’ers will get “shot first”???
Well, I don’t know about CCers being “elitists”… but, I do agree with you that “you’ll get shot first” is a weak argument against OCing.
I think “you’ll get your gun grabbed” is a weak argument. Yes, its happened. Happened once here in Milwaukee… but its exceptionally rare. We chastise anti’s when they try to project policy/practice based on isolated incidences, and then pro-gun folks turn around and resort to anomaly and such to discourage OC?
That would be like discouraging carry for self-defense because people have in the past had their own gun turned against them. Its the exception, not the rule.
You’ll get your gun wet in the rain makes sense as a reason not to OC. “you’ll get your gun grabbed” does not.
You really lose me with your contention that its “all about a political statement” First, so what if it is? If someone wants to make a political statement with 2nd amendment t-shirt or an OC’d gun… whats the difference?
That said, for many people they are not making a political statement, they are just carrying how they prefer for convenience.
And if you think there is NO tactical advantage of OC… NO deterrent value???
Why do armed security guards OC and wear uniforms to draw attention to themselves?
Why do police OC? Both could CC. If there is no deterrent value of seeing an armed person, why don’t police who walk beats go un-uniformed and CC?
Rob, is it ok to pull a few segments of audio from this to use for discussion on my radio program Sunday night?
never let the bad guy know what you have is my motto, in fact i just saw a video of a security guard while working and OC, 2 kids walked past him and both were CC. the smaller kid had his gun out and pointed at the head of the security guard and the second one just a short time later. they wanted his gun and knew he had it because he OCed for work. now i believe in freedom and everyone has the right to make their own decisions. i personally want the advantage of surprise. in fact, i want every advantage i can get. i do not believe in playing fair when my life is at stake. the kids took his wallet also and left. they wanted another gun and the sight of it made it easy for them. also with open carry someone can come up behind you cool cock you or have his hand on your gun before you know it. i also saw a video of a guy in a checkout line have a guy come up behind him take his gun and ran out before the guy could react. i believe you have the right, but i certainly am going to take every advantage i can and showing all my cards before the game is over just makes it harder for you to come out a winner.
I’ve open carried a Glock 23 here in Oklahoma since OC became law on 11/01/12 without the slightest issue arising. I use a Black Hawk Serpa 2 holster like was shown in the video. I OC because I am a portly guy around the waist who likes to wear his shirts tucked in for a neat looking appearance and find it to be much more comfortable OCing. Wearing a over shirt or vest is way to hot and causes sweating, especially when Oklahoma’s having one of its well known 100+ heat waves. I’ve interacted with dozens of police / sheriffs & Highway patrol officers when out in public… at stores and in restaurants. In the 17+ yrs I’ve had my permit and carried on a daily basis.. I have never once had to show my permit to a LEO. I was recently told by some LEOs that not one issue had arisen due to open carry since it became law in Oklahoma. And while one gun grab incident in Florida was mentioned.. given the millions of permit holders around the country… open carry seems to be a pretty safe option. In fact, I’ve had managers at my local Walmart super store and cafes tell me they like having some of their regular customers with a visible firearm in the place. That is why they give LEO’s discounts to frequent restaurants. Bad guys aren’t wary of the badges so much as the visible guns they might have to face. Bad guys [and citizens in general] don’t seem to remember Oklahoma is a carry state, until they actually see a handgun in plain view.
I’ve always viewed OC as the “counter” to the Brady Campaign wanting us to hide our guns because we were “normalizing” society. I want our society to not fear the sight of guns… but you’ve made some great points in several videos that there are better ways to fight them. Consider me convinced…. it’s only taken me a year since the OC “assclown” video. I’m hoping to attend a CFS class in Indiana someday.
I agree with that. I have many reason I O/C and yes showing a normal exercise is one. well over 90% of my interactions have been positive. Comfort, deterrent, quickness and more are reasons as well. There are news stories out there that show a crime was stopped or never started because of OC. In one specific case I recall they saw someone OCing and waited outside for that person to leave. That took a while and their suspicious behavior was noticed and they were questions and managed to incriminate themselves.
I do have an active retention strap, mostly so i do not have to worry as much and I have a lot of friends with kids. I also CC if i expect to be in larger tighter gatherings.
Regarding the video cameras. All smartphones have that built in and with the prevalence of such and that there are bad cops out there, and more uninformed starting the video camera as soon as you are approached is something that was advised as soon as carrying became more popular in my area. Now there will be those that look for a confrontation yes, but the fact that video exists does not mean that was the goal, it may just be defense for the inevitable,
in the end it is just your opinion. there are good reasons fro OC and for CC that are valid for each individual and situation differently.
This is such a great video. Open carrying shoudn’t be a political statement. I couldn’t agree more with this.
He does make some good points. I worry that he, like many other apparent zealots may alienate some of the people he and they try to educate by degrading others’ opinions and methods. As an example, consider what would happen if I tell you that your way of doing things is stupid. Ask yourself (honestly) if you are going to get defensive about your position, or decide to convert to the method of the person who is so obviously smarter than you? On the other hand, if the trainer can cite specific and verifiable examples and/or credible research studies that demonstrate my way is stupid and his way is better, I may be convinced. Which is more convincing?
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I agree and disagree with what he is saying. Open carry shouldn’t be used as a political tool, however if exercising that right got it taken away then you never really had that right. That being said, some people are being stupid in the way they exercise open carry. I’m not talking about taking an AR strapped to your back to get a cup of coffee. If carrying a pistol openly get the law changed and makes it illegal then you never really had a right to open carry.