S.W.A.T. Magazine TV Lost Episode 8: Applying Precision Rifle Skills

Now taping for SWAT magazine TV is always fun but this particular day was probably one of the best of the entire series. David Burns and I got the run of the entire ALERRT training facility and we had two very precise rifles to play with. We turned it into a sniper's playground. Most people don't think of shoot houses when they think of sniper training but the reality is if you want to be able to apply your practical precision rifle skills on demand whether as a sniper, or even as a hunter you need to have practiced and pushed your limits, beforehand. Today Sergeant David Burns and I are going to take advantage of the 37 acre ALERRT facility to test ourselves, our prior training, and our gear into buildings, out of buildings, from vehicles, through glass, even on top of a tower.

Stay tuned for a great SWAT magazine TV. I'm at the Rappel Station on top of one of the training buildings here at the Advanced Law Enforcement Rapid Response Training Center in Hayes County, outside of San Marcos, Texas. And I've got David Burns with me. David Burns is a sniper. He's a member of the Hayes County SWAT team.

And he's going to help me work through what actually is one of the greatest days I could possibly spend on the range. How many acres do we have out here David? 37 acres. 37 acres of just us, just these two rifles, and targets all over the place. David talked to me about the importance of training precision rifle off of the known distance range.

Well, that's a great place to start any time that you're learning a new skill set, but what ends up happening is that doesn't always match up to reality. And so reality is you may be eating, you know lunch and five seconds later, you're on a call and having to make a shot to save someone's life. And when that happens, you're probably not in the prone position or got a benchrest to do that. Now, obviously we both done a lot of training. He serving as an active sniper right now in a law enforcement capacity.

I've been through a bunch of the training, conducted the courses myself, but we've got some shots set up here today on basically a 37 acre sniper playground. We're going to use this tower. We're going to be in and out of vehicles. We're going to be in a lot of improvised positions. We've got interactive and reactive targets.

We've got facades and shoot houses and all kinds of things to use. And really we're going to be testing the application of skill. David's going to be coaching me through some of the harder shots. This is going to be a great episode of SWAT magazine TV. Appreciate you being here, David You bet looking forward to it.

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CrossBreed holsters are handmade in the USA, come with a lifetime warranty, and a two week try it free guarantee. Order your holster today at crossbreedholsters.com. All right so our first shooting position is about a hundred yards away from our targets. We're going to be shooting at the torso or head of this terrorist target. It's actually a pop-up down in the window in the breaching facade.

We're on the first landing of the tower. We're actually in a situation where we don't want to stick our guns out of the window. Of course, anybody could stand up and rest the gun out here on the window sill and be able to get a pretty stable base and make a a hundred yard shot. What David's going to demonstrate as a way of bracing his left arm, his off hand, on the railing so that we can get away from the stairs, get the angle we need. He's actually going to rest the rifle across his left arm.

We're going to take the shot from this position. David's going to go first. Then I'll jump in and try it myself. Ready to go? We're hot.

That's a hit. Awesome. You want to reset that target? I'll jump in and try the same shot. You bet.

Again what makes this interesting is the idea that we're not just testing the gear out to make sure we're zero. We're not just testing our own trigger control. Now we're actually looking at the applied precision rifle skill. So this is a situation that someone may find themselves in. If they have to take an opportunity to take a shot on the way up the stairwell.

Maybe we anticipated getting up to the roof and actually setting up in a more stable position. Command gets us on the radio. We have to take the shot from here. This is the kind of situation we may have to throw together just to save a life. I'm gonna get into the same position.

Make hot. Good hit. Now we're going to try something a little different. I'm going to reset the target for David. He's going to stand by right here on this window.

We're no longer going to worry about protruding from beyond but obviously this is going to be a left-handed shot. Now personally I've never taken an offhanded shot from anywhere but the mat. I don't know about you, David? Never have. Well let's see what happens.

Good hit. He'll bring that target back up for me. Good hit. That was definitely interesting. Getting into these awkward positions, getting into unorthodox shooting positions, being able to use the skills that we've developed on the mat, on the range, standing, kneeling, squatting, sitting whatever it may have been.

Really a great test of skill. This is exactly the kind of thing that you should be doing. If you want to be able to use your precision marksmanship skills, whether it's on a SWAT team, part of the military, of course, even in hunting situation. Maybe that trophy buck requires you to shoot left-handed. Let's head up the tower and see what else we can get into.

All right. All right again, this is a situation where we might be able to go prone. We're going to try it from a sit and what we're going to do specifically here is we're going to be observing that window, sitting in this position, assume we've got a green light. Again, maybe you're sitting in a tree stand, you're sitting in a blind and you know the deer come up the ridge, you've gotten a glimpse now he's going to come into the area where you're going to take him and you've planned your shot. Same thing in a sniper situation.

I'm sitting here, I'm watching the window. If that guy shows himself, he's still got a weapon in his hand, I'm going to take the shot. David's going to run the machine and when that target pops up, I'm going to take the shot as quickly as I can. Of course take the followup side if I need to. And again, I'm not protruding beyond the window.

I'm setback into the building. In position. Target down. Give it a try dude? Give it a try.

In position. Now one of the important things about precision rifle training is training with reactive targets. If all you do is shoot groups or shoot paper you're really left with nothing, but to shoot and then assess. The reality is if you had to take a shot you want to make sure that if that shot doesn't do what you need to do. Drop the bad guy.

You immediately take your followup shot. That means run the bolt or on this one simply settle the scope and take the shot again. So this time we have a moving target down there that's a great reactive target. This is an important part of the training. I know you guys at the ALERRT facility come up with a great way to do it, David.

Talk about that target swinging around in that door. Well Rob you're exactly right. Having a reactive target is extremely important and a lot of times it costs a lot of money in order to have these. So what we've done is kind of come up, improvise, adapt, overcome. Everybody's got a beauty college somewhere within their town when they do their hair cuts things of that nature.

When those little foam heads are, or when they're done with them they throw them in the trash. So what we do is we've got a connection where we get them, we'll bore out just the medulla, fill it with a water balloon, put it in there, and hang it from a doorframe like we have this one out here and try to make the shot. Excellent. Well, I'll tell you what, that's a moving target. It's a little bit windy today.

Why don't you go ahead and take advantage of the prone and let's see get into position again. Again this is all about pushing our limits today. It's about getting out here and really pushing the gear, pushing our skills to the limit. Trying to do it as realistically as possible. I'm going to go ahead and give you control David.

Whenever you're ready. All right I've got control. This is where we see the followup shot. All right, Rob, how about you give it a shot. All right.

Just a balloon that's tied down onto a stick. So the wind is going to maneuver it around. So anytime what we're looking for here is having to take a snapshot immediately let's say it may be that deer, that big buck that comes out and gives you that one opportunity or it could be on a hostage situation where you've been given the green light. You see 'em moving around in a specific area. You've got to work your way through your prep to shoot at any point in time, breathing is critical here.

You want to try to stay on the area of where that target has been showing itself. Truly a patient patient game here. Now you've been operational as a sniper on your team, David. How real is this? Just sitting and waiting and watching.

Oh, this is real. And this is probably as real as it gets right here. Nothing will test your patients more than that balloon or a suspect that once you've been given a green light will not move. Outstanding. Outstanding, patients paid off.

It sure did. And luckily this Maraud's dialed in cause I only got about an inch to shoot at and it looks like that was the last round. That was difficult. All right, David, it looks like we're about 150 yards away. Now it's warmed up a little bit.

I don't think that's going to affect much than shedding a layer of clothes. We're on the third landing of the tower. We don't want to stick our gun out again and be on the window sill. I know you've got a solution for this. You want to show me how you're going to set this up?

You bet. This is what, we're, what we've got here. Obviously it's a higher landing we're not going to be able to remain in the prone position to make this 150 yard shot and we want to remain back away from the window sill. So what we're going to do is we're just going to take some one inch nylon webbing that's been sewn together and we're gonna attempt to find either a rafter or something within inside the building. All right once we get 'em, we kinda separate 'em, and get 'em as far apart as we can, giving us kind of a rest position.

It's not going to be as stable as a prone position once again but it's going to give us a lot more than trying to make an offhand shot at this kind of a range. Now these look about perfect. I guess we could shorten these up if we needed to? You bet. In fact, a lot of guys will tell you uses bungee cords and that gives them a little bit more flexibility.

Once again, this is not going to be as stable as a prone position, but it's going to give us a lot better rest than we'd have offhand. All right, I'll get out of your way. All right, we'll give it a try. I guess you'll go on that red balloon and save the green one for me? I will save you the green balloon.

Good hit. Taking a look at the body position you had. If I throw a knot here, I think I might be up a little higher and it might just be a little bit more comfortable for me. It's almost like cheating if I make it too comfortable, I guess. That's not a short joke is it?

No, no. I'm telling you this is like sniper playground today. We've been having too much fun. Little different, different kind of rifle. Not quite as smooth and flat.

I'm going to stay in front of the magazine well and that's one of the things about working with these improvised rests is you really do learn. I would never have thought about the magazine being an issue with this kind of rest. I've used one before, but never with a semi auto. Target's down. Nice.

Nice follow up. That is not the most stable in the world, but hell of a lot better than just trying to stand here offhand. You bet. You bet it is. I think we got one more level of the tower left?

You bet. One more level to go. Great. Let's head up. SWAT magazine delivers great information straight to your doorstep every month.

Head over to swatmag.com and subscribe today. Let's take a break from the shooting action and see what Kyle Lamb has to say about his favorite choice when it comes to a magnified optic on top of an AR. On top of this rifle I have a new scope that's available from Leupold. It's the CQBSS it's a one to eight variable powered scope. There's a lot of really cool features about this scope and I really recommend you checking it out.

Some of the features that we help Leupold design into this particular scope first of all, it's a front focal plane scope, which means that the radical will stay the same size throughout your zoom range. The rear of the scope has been knurled so you can go simply grab the whole rear of the scope and twist it up to eight power, and you'll be good to go. We also have locking turrets on this scope. Simply squeezing the turret will allow it to unlock. On the left-hand side of the scope I can adjust the illumination for the radicle inside the scope.

It's a really great piece of kit. If you're going to be shooting anywhere from 100 yards out to 600 yards with your AR platform this is definitely the scope for you. My total background in law enforcement. I left the military after eight years of service in United States Army and came on board with the Hayes County Sheriff's office. I'm kind of a jack of all trades master of none.

I've worked everything from corrections in the jail to a patrol. I worked narcotics grew my hair long, got some earrings, you know, didn't bathe for a couple of weeks. I've been a part of the SWAT team now for going on 14 years. I've worked everything, everything from point man on entry, to team leader, to a sniper team, to a sniper, to sniper team leader and now I'm currently the commander of the SWAT team. There they are right there.

That looks a little further away than we'd been shooting. Some of the training that we've gone through or that we put our team through a lot of communication drills between the sniper and the observer. A lot of simultaneous shots between two of the snipers and a lot of, you know reactionary targets, high-angle targets, everything. We try to do nothing more than get our cold bore shot from a bench rest or on the prone and everything else from then on is you're in some type of improvised position when you're firing that weapon. Just like any other, you know mid-sized agency we'll work a multi-jurisdictional team.

We have 21 members, five of those members are snipers. We deploy our snipers, always in sniper observer teams. Snipers mainly are an intel intelligence gathering resource just as our counterparts in the military. Here in law enforcement as well. They're the eyes of the commander, who's having to make the decisions on what the team's going to do.

Well we've got good shots. However, take a look at this. There's two holes in both targets. I know we only shot one time. I teach because I've been blessed to have learned from people who are much more experienced, much better than me, and any little tidbits of information that I can pass forth to my students.

You know, that's why I teach somebody taught me. I'm just trying to, I'm just trying to pay back. To work here at the ALERRT Center means a lot to me because the very first time that I ever walked and set foot on this facility, it was a corn field. And so I've watched the progression of this training and I've watched the progression of the training as it's been implemented across the United States. And there's probably nothing better than probably once every two to three months we get a call from one of our former students who say, "Hey what you showed us worked.

What you showed us saved lives." And that's gotta be, that's gotta be it. And just seeing that on a regular basis. Reality is you may be eating, you know, lunch and five seconds later you're on a call and having to make a shot to save someone's life. Every day that I get to go out there and pass on any little bit of knowledge that at one time was passed on to me. And when I do that and I see the light bulb come on in the student's head for whatever skill set we're working on that's the highlight.

And every time I do it, it's the new highlight of my teaching career. For many years, I've been a big advocate of the belly band as a great holster for a small or mid-sized firearm that you're going to carry inside the waistband. And of course I've become a big fan of appendix carry as well, in the last few years. Now I've partnered up with Crossbreed Holsters to make presentation from a belly band in the appendix position or anywhere inside the waistband, faster, more efficient, and of course better for self-defense use of a firearm. We've done this by taking the traditional belly band and simply covering it with hook and loop fastener that allows us to attach one of the Crossbreed Ohai holsters.

This gives us the presentation convenience of coming out of Kydex instead of coming out of the leather or fabric pouches that normally hold a small firearm inside of a belly band. This is a huge advantage when you need your firearm for personal defense and you want it to present smoothly and consistently every time and in the training environment it also makes it a lot easier to re-holster consistently and safely while you're on the line with other people. And again, this is regardless of whether you're carrying in the appendix position or at the three o'clock, four o'clock, or even five o'clock position. Some people will even take the belly band use the Ohai holster and go into a cross draw position because you can angle with the hook and loop fastener the holster in any direction. And of course, Crossbreed has a complete selection of Ohai holsters to fit any defensive firearm.

The nice thing about this system also is that I can now take my defensive firearm, load it, chamber a round, and never need to unholster it until I actually need to unholster it. So I can take this firearm and put it on the Bedside Backup again from Crossbreed Holsters. I can take the hook and loop fastener this industrial strength adhesive and put it virtually anywhere. I can put it under a desk. I can put it under the dash of my vehicle.

I can put this anywhere that I want to secure a firearm including inside of a purse, inside of a backpack, or inside of a briefcase. So now for off body carry or for on-body carry I can take the Ohai holster, attach it to my belly band, put it on underneath something as simple as an untucked polo shirt or t-shirt, maybe a jacket or any kind of pullover. I'm very proud to be working with Crossbreed Holsters on this project. I think this is going to be a huge advantage for people that carry inside the waistband and they're looking for a convenient, efficient concealment solution. Being an armed citizen means having a gun with you all the time.

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Order your holster today at crossbreedholsters.com. Welcome to Personal Defense Network. For years we've been the internet's leading destination for high-quality information on equipment, training, and your preparation for personal or home defense. Our videos are meant for those who are serious about enhancing their ability to use efficient techniques to survive a dynamic critical incident. But now we've stepped things up even higher.

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Handheld or weapon mounted where should your light be for home defense? Let's see what the experts have to say? I think weapon mounted lights for home defense are a good option, especially whenever you are, you have little ones in the house you may have to take on your arm and get them out of harm's way. You don't have to put down a light source. You can have a weapon mounted light source readily available to continue to scan for any threats.

I believe you should have a weapon mounted light. I think you should also have a backup light system that's a handheld system to go along with a weapon mounted light, but if you truly need to engage a threat you need to have a weapon mounted light. If you're on the phone, talking to somebody how are you going to hold the light and talk on the phone and cover your sector? So weapon mount, I thinks a way to go. I think that many times they're overused.

I can walk through my house in pitch dark. Turn them on when you need 'em. Always having a light with a weapon is a good idea. You got to train to that though. I would not encourage folks that have never shot with a light on a pistol or a rifle or shotgun for that matter to do it the first time they need to save their lives.

If your gonna have something like that you definitely need to have trained with it. But if you're not doing the time or the place to train then I wouldn't have it. Illumination of the target is vitally important. You've got to know what you're shooting, why you're shooting? And it does align the light and the weapon, but it's another component that if not properly rehearsed or trained could be more complicating.

My personal preference is a weapon mounted light. However, it's important to train for both. And why I choose a weapon mounted is by using a handheld you lose a hand. You lose a hand from control of the firearm. However, our training that we do, we teach 'em both.

And it's important to realize that when you take a hand off that firearm, you know your accuracy is affected and we need to train that way. But again, for me, it's weapon mounted. The problem with a weapons mounted lights are that people tend to go train during the day and then not utilize them. The big pro to a weapon mounted light, especially if we're talking a long gun and I'm a big fan of a long gun being your home defense weapon. The whole reason for a pistol is to have a to fight your way back to the rifle shotgun you should have had your hands in the first place.

So a weapons mounted light for a long guns absolutely essential because you can't hold a flashlight in your hand and run that long gun at the same time. You can takes a lot of training. A lot easier to train with that thing, on that weapon, but the key to it is train with it on the weapon. Even during the day time you can, you know train to activate that light. Okay, we're on top of the tower now.

So we've got a little bit of an extreme angle that we're also shooting. We're gonna couple of this up so now we're gonna also shoot through some glass. Rob I'm sure that you've shot through glass before right? Shot through glass, but never at this angle. I mean, we're only probably 20 or 30 degrees off the pane of the glass.

Exactly and most of the time, whenever we do shoot through glass or when we're trying to shoot through glass we like to get a 90 degree angle. However, like we've been doing all day that isn't always reality. So what we're going to work on today is just having those extreme angles and shooting through that glass. See what the bullet does. All right.

I'll get down into the prone and staying back from the lip. We wouldn't want to reveal our position any more than we needed to. Exactly. And we're gonna be able to take a look and see where this bullet goes. I'm gonna cheat a little bit to the right.

Expecting that bullet to be pulled to the left. Yes, exactly. Good hit? Good hit. All right.

Well there's another target on the bottom pane set up for you. Why don't you try it off the edge of the building over at the top if we had a more expedient opportunity we needed to take. Sure you bet. Let's give it a try. Okay now on this one, Rob what we're going to do is we're gonna go ahead and I'm gonna actually act like I've just got a snapshot that I've got to make extremely quickly.

So I'm not going to worry about putting my barrel outside the wall or anything like that. So we'll come up and try to make that snapshot as quickly as we can. Okay, target's down. Hey Rob, how about we take it downstairs and let's go take a look and see what the bullet did going through that glass. Yeah, I'm really interested to see where those impacts are.

Awesome. I'm really anxious to see what the glass did. We already, we can see the ovals we know it's not that clean hole we get punching straight through. Yeah exactly. Well, we've got good shots.

However, take a look at this there's two holes in both targets. I know we only shot one time each. So. Jacket separation? Yeah, that'd be my best.

That'd be my first guess anyway. It's interesting. You know, I was holding on the right eye on the top target obviously expecting the bullet to get pulled left and sure enough, that there's a hole in the left eye and then that maybe the jacket hole down there in the chin? And you've got the same too. Very true almost exactly identical.

Where was your point of hold on that? Just above that right eye. Okay, so sure enough pulled over to the left eye, same thing but then there's that other hole down there in the ear, it's gotta be jacket. Gotta be. Other thing interesting is the balloon did pop, you know I wanted to see what that spall would do with the glass and sure enough that other hostage would have taken some glass in the face but that's a lot better than AK round, I guess.

Exactly. Let's get a closer look. Come on let's take a look. Well whatever it is it wasn't completely bullet shape when it went through that's for sure. Whether it was the jacket or not.

I mean, that's really torn up and this is super thin normal household glass. I mean, there's nothing special here. No not at all. This is not a, it's not a laminate. It's not safety glass.

It's not anything else, but that's an extreme angle. I've never shot through glass at that angle before. I'm really surprised to see how much damage it really did to these bullets. I mean, it's got 'em tumbling and spinning and everything else. I mean, clearly we still took out the target but those look like bullet holes and it's two each.

Yeah they really do. It doesn't appear to be just a jacket that is ripped apart. So, and like you said that's why we train because it's very hard for you to ever have a hundred percent accuracy on what that bullet's going to do when it's coming through any pane of glass, at any angle, and this angle obviously we've learned something here today. Well we're inside a vehicle. Yeah.

A lot of times you don't always get to have a building or your choice of building whenever you're out on the operation. A lot of times in order for especially sniper teams to be able to blend into the environment this is what we have to work from, some type of a vehicle. And we even got the hatch pulled down a little bit. Now, obviously that could even maybe be a little bit lower depending on the angle, depending on how we were able to park the truck and it just makes it less likely maybe somebody in the buildings could see us inside of here? That's exactly right.

Okay, so we're about 200 yards or so from the target maybe a little bit less than that. What exactly are we going to do? I'm gonna attempt to make a simultaneous shot. That can be from any reason barricade penetration, if we are having to shoot through glass. We saw what the bullets did going through the glass earlier.

So in order to make sure we're making the shots and they're on target, we're going to have those neither one of those bullets will get there at the exactly the same time. Sure. So now there isn't any glass in this particular case, but we're simulating if we wanted to break the glass and go through or maybe we just want to make sure that this guy goes down we're going to put two guns on him. Exactly. Okay, great.

And we're going to initiate it on a random start. We're going to try to get that shot off as soon as we can, as close to simultaneous as possible. Sounds good. All right. Let me know when you're in the position.

Now, what type of target is this that's inside that shoot house? It's a knock down target. It's not automatic. So we're gonna have to hit the central nervous system in order to put that target down. Okay and on this kind of shot, you're the Sergeant I'm gonna take your lead.

Are we going body or head? 200 yards. No need for a hostage. Let's work the body. All right sounds good.

So right up the center of the spine of course he's bladed off a little bit. So I'm going to probably cheat it a little bit to the right. And I'm in position I'll hit that timer whenever you tell me you're in position Sarge. All right in position. Well we're going to have to go down there and check that target.

I'll tell you this. We were 0.28 and our shots were 0.0 100th off. Wow. Can't get much more in sync than that. No that's pretty much in sync there.

All right cool. Well, we were about a little less than a third of a second from the timer to the shot. Both shots went off in one 100th of a second. Let's go see what we did. Let's go, let's go check it out.

Well, we got the body shots. Yeah got the body shots, not the greatest shots for 200 yards, but that will most definitely suffice. The bigger issue is us being able to make those simultaneous shots and get them within those time timeframes that we had talked about, so. Yeah and you know, obviously we haven't spent a lot of time training together and I think we shot 10 shots in front of each other but just being out here today and the fact that I know you've trained to a timer before I've trained to a timer before, at the end of the day, it's really just about how quickly you can react to that go signal. That's exactly right.

Okay Rob, I know you've shot these targets before, but for the viewers that haven't, what we're going to do is let's go ahead and we'll do I'll initiate the shot and you'll make a shot follow after me and vice versa as we work our way around. We'll start on the upper right hand target, and then we'll work our way left, right. So you'll be the initiator on all the left targets. I'll be the initiator on all the right targets. Sounds good.

Awesome. Now, of course, we're breaking a couple of rules here. I just switched to this 155 grain A-MAX type bullet from the 168 grain I was using. We know that might have an effect on the exact point of impact. And man, I hate going hard on hard.

And that's exactly what we're doing with these rests. I may even cheat my hand in there a little. I am in position. On my command for the second shot. On your command for the third shot.

Well, I'll tell you what I think that ammunition switch is definitely affecting. I have consistently gone off to the right significantly on every shot. I'm going to have to adjust my hold moving down there. I switched from 168 grain to 155 grain and it's consistently off to the right. On my initiation with a hold off.

Ready? Ready. On you, I am in position. All right. That was difficult.

Well, chasing that 155. I would thought I had thrown it the first couple of times and when I realized that it was consistent I got to assume that's some ammo issue. I agree. What do you usually see when you switch like that? I mean, people think about it well, it's 13 grains.

What's the big deal? What do you see? It varies weapons systems, weapons types. It just varies it really does. All right, well, beautiful day of shooting.

Let's go down there and take a look at those targets. Let's take a look. Well as we say, this is why we train. Exactly. Difficult shots, you know, to make from for any sniper.

You know, and it's a good day of training that we end on a very humbling note without a doubt. Well, the reality is we're a hundred ish yards, in a wind, improvised risk, both of us stooped down, you know change of ammo, different equipment, angles we've never shot at before. This is exactly why we do this. Now you're operational. I get the go to the training range.

I work with guys like you, or I'm just out having fun. And today was a great day of shooting. And of course it reminds me that I still have things to work on when I do get the chance to get a precision rifle in my hands. But you're operational. What are the lessons you take away from this experience here, especially on this last set of shots?

If you don't have the shot, don't take it. And there's prime example all over this board right here as to why. Know your own capabilities and never think too much of yourself, continue to train and be humble. And this is a humbling, this is definitely a humbling target. It is.

Anytime you go out to the range you've gotta be pushing yourself. You gotta be pushing your limits. You gotta be pushing your equipment. Trying new things and that's really what today was all about. Sergeant Burns I really appreciate you being willing to come out here and push yourself and test yourself and let everybody see that it's perfectly fine to be operational, to be well-trained, to be certified, and still be willing to push yourself, find ways that you can improve your performance.

Really appreciate it Sarg. Thanks very much. Oh you bet. My pleasure. And thank you for watching SWAT magazine TV.