
Interactions with Law Enforcement Session 6: Firearms in Vehicles: Off Body Carry
Rob PincusDescription
Having a firearm that can be seen in plain sight while in a vehicle is likely to get the attention of a police officer who approaches the vehicle, and may cause the officer to proceed with added caution. This Session addresses such situations and provides important advice from a police officer’s perspective, including proactive steps drivers can follow to ensure a safe and efficient interaction.
Off body carry in a vehicle is very common. Now, whether this is actually staging a gun inside of a holster mounted into your car, keeping a gun inside of a fanny pack or a briefcase or any other kind of a bag on the passenger seat that you can access quickly if you need it, or even just carrying a firearm inside of a case in an area that can be seen inside of the passenger compartment or through the windows in the back section of an SUV, being aware that you may have to interact with law enforcement with that firearm clearly exposed and possibly accessible while being loaded is, of course, important to accept. Let's take another look at the DVD that we've produced previously for Personal Defense Network on interacting with law enforcement while armed, specifically in regard to what to do when you have a traffic violation or other vehicle stop where the officer is interacting with you and there is an exposed firearm in that passenger compartment. Now, remember the interactions are still gonna be based on your procedures checklist in your supplemental materials, but this will give you a good idea of how that interaction might look and the way you should interact with that police officer. Now, if you happen to have a firearm exposed in the car, maybe you have a hard, pointed holster, maybe you keep a firearm in a bag, maybe you keep a firearm in a locked case that you open and unlock while you're driving, whatever the situation is, we're not talking about it necessarily a recommended practice, but if you do have a firearm exposed in the car, and of course, you're complying with the laws wherever you happen to be driving, you may have a situation where you get pulled over by an officer while that firearm is exposed.
And the officer either notices or doesn't notice that firearm during the traffic stop. Jeremy, how does this change things when the firearm is actually visible to the officer? Well, that firearm becomes immediately accessible to that subject. So it's gonna ramp the officer up. He's gonna, and he or she is going to end up escalating for safety purposes.
So right away, we've got a situation here where it's very unlike a concealed carry, where you're actually informing the officer and saying, "Officer, I have a firearm on my person. I'm legally carrying it. I have a permit." Now, before you even get to interact with the officer, and in this case, you approach from the passenger side, which is becoming a common practice now. In fact, I see officers who feel like it's too common a practice, and they now switch it up. Sometimes they'll go to the passenger side.
Sometimes they'll go to the driver's side, depending on where they think they'll get the most benefit from catching the occupants off guard and being able to look in. So if the officer does look in and see that firearm before you get a chance to actually make them aware of it, let's see what could happen. Okay. Hello, sir. May I see your driver's license, registration, proof of insurance?
Yes sir. Sir, I see that weapon. Please put your hands up on the steering wheel now. If you reach for the weapon, I will shoot you. Do you understand me?
Yes, sir. Okay. What I'd like you to do is take your right hand and place it on the door. Okay, keep your hand in that position. Now take your left hand and place it on the door.
Okay, keep your hand in that position, you understand? Yes, sir. Look that way for me. Do you have any other weapons inside the car? No, sir.
Okay. Charlie two, ready me a second unit, got a weapon in the car. Okay, sir, if you place your hands back on the steering wheel for me. Okay. Stay in that position.
I'll be right with you, okay? Sir, all I'm gonna ask you to do is keep your hands in that position, okay? I'm gonna escort you out of the vehicle and conduct a pat down to make sure there's no further weapons, okay? Do you understand? All I ask is you please comply with all my directions, okay?
If you have any questions about anything, just feel free to ask me, okay? Keep your hands were that right there. I'm gonna escort you out of the vehicle. Just go ahead and step out for me. Turn and face the car.
All right, so what we saw here was that as Jeremy approached the vehicle, he was getting ready to make contact with the subject in the car or as he was making contact with the subject in the car, and this is gonna be you. Maybe you're looking out the driver's side. They approach behind you, and the officer sees the firearm and immediately gives you direction to put your hands in some place, in this case, on the steering wheel. And then he's gonna take action to clear the firearm from the vehicle, from the access. And Jeremy actually went ahead and actually unloaded it, secured it, and then went on with the traffic stop.
Now, Jeremy, what's your experience been when you've actually seen a legally armed person who meant you no threat, was not a criminal with a firearm exposed in the car? What kind of situations have you had to deal with? Usually they're surprised. Through the process of driving from point A to point B, somehow that firearm became exposed. It slid out of whatever the device was they were carrying it in.
So they may not even have knowledge that it did that. So if you're in a situation where you're thinking that, "Well, I'm gonna let law enforcement know in a moment that I have a firearm in my purse, I have a firearm in the glove compartment," and for whatever reason, bad luck, your glove department popped open as the officer was approaching, boom, there's the firearm, you may be confronted with this situation. Now, in this case, you then after clearing the firearm decided to go ahead and pull the suspect at that point out of the vehicle and pat them down. Now what's, again, the logic for this? 'Cause this was the same thing we dealt with in one case with the concealed carry.
So the logic behind it is we're taught that if there's one weapon, there's two. So basically what I wanna do is I wanna secure the scene, make sure it's safe for me to be within that scene and then continue on from there. So what I'm gonna do is just gain control of the violator at this time and just conduct a pat down and make sure that he doesn't have any more weapons on him. And chances are after that, I'm not gonna actually have him go back into the vehicle until the stop is complete, and he's gonna be dismissed from the stop. Okay.
And of course in that scenario, Jeremy had actually called for another officer, a backup officer. You should expect that any time there's an officer safety issue, another officer is gonna arrive, maybe several officers, maybe a supervisor, and it's important to understand it. That shouldn't antagonize you. That's just something the officers are doing by training for safety. Yeah, it's standard protocol, right?
Officer safety, you know, it's a theme throughout this entire segment. Officer safety is paramount, right? We wanna do everything we can to make sure our safety and the safety of the violator is top priority. And remember, when he says violator, this is common terminology for a police officer to use. You violated some traffic law, right?
You violated, maybe you aren't supposed to have your firearm exposed in the car, and it became exposed. It was an accident, but at that point, the idea is you are a suspect. You are a potential threat, and the officer's safety is gonna be the first thing that each one of those officers is dealing with. Now, if the officer becomes very agitated or very threatened by the existence of that firearm, they might even pull their firearm up. Let's take a look and see what might happen and what you may have to deal with in terms of the officer not thinking that it's a very casual thing that there's an exposed firearm inside of the vehicle.
Hello, sir. Can I see your driver's license? Put both hands up on the steering wheel. I see the weapon. Do not reach for the weapon, or I will shoot you.
Do you understand? Yes. Okay, keep your hands up on the steering wheel. Charlie two, I got a subject with a weapon. Can you send me a second?
Look straight ahead for me please. Keep both hands up on the wheel. Now, in this case, as Jeremy approaches, the officer realizes there's a firearm in the car and, for whatever reason, feels like there's a higher level of threat than simply verbal commands justifies. So he deploys his firearm. Now, the type of ready position isn't here for us to critique, you know, how that person does it tactically.
This is not the time to get into a discussion with the officer about exactly how they're deploying their firearm or why they're deploying their firearm. The fact is, if that firearm comes out, if they tell you that they are in fear of their life, if they tell you that they may shoot you, you really need to comply. Let's take a look at how this is gonna go. Okay. Hello, sir.
Can I see your driver's license? I see the weapon. Do not reach for it. I will shoot you. Do you understand?
Yes. Put both hands up on the steering wheel. Charlie two, got a subject with a weapon. Can I get second unit in place? Now look straight ahead.
Stay looking straight ahead. Okay. Now Jeremy, you chose to go to a low-ready. Is it plausible that an officer might point a firearm at someone if they feel compelled to, A, emphasize their point about how they feel threatened, or B, they really do believe that that person has the intent to hurt them because the ability is obviously there in the open? Yes.
And it all depends on the officer's level of training. Typically, what I see on the street is officers will either, A, point the, draw the weapon system to the low-ready and maintain that position, or they will draw extend full extension and point in on the violator. What's your suggestion for a person who ends up in this situation? It's important to comply with the officer. Keep your hands in a position where they can see them.
And if you don't understand something, ask for clarification. Absolutely. Remember just like the officer's safety is the first thing in his mind, your safety needs to be the first thing in your mind. If someone is pointing a firearm at you, and they're telling you to keep your hands on the steering wheel, at that moment, keep your hands on the steering wheel. Now, that may not be exactly the way you're gonna play it out, and you're not gonna argue, and you're not gonna talk back, and you're not gonna plead for your life if it's a bad guy pointing their firearm at you.
But there is a distinct difference when a law enforcement officer, when someone that you believe to be a law enforcement officer, have no reason to believe that they're not there to protect themselves and the citizenry, that they're appropriate in their contact with you or inappropriate in their contact with you. You may have no idea why you got pulled over. It may be a case of mistaken identity. Regardless, it's incredibly important for your safety that you comply, even if the officer seems to be overreacting. Let's take a look.
Hello, sir, can I see your driver's license, registration, and proof of insurance please? Why, yes sir. But before I do, I want you to know I have a pistol in this bag right here. No, that's okay. Just keep your hands up where I can see them.
Okay, do you have a carry permit for the pistol? I do. Okay. No big deal. I stopped you for speeding today.
Okay. You were going seven miles over the speed limit, if you could just slow down for me. Okay, I'm gonna confirm that you have a good driver's license, and we'll get you on your way, okay? Yes, sir. I'm not gonna ask for your ID.
Can I just get your name verbally for me? Joe Lentz. Okay. I'm gonna go back and clarify with dispatch, make sure you got a good license, and we'll get you underway, okay? Yes, sir.
All right. Just keep your hands up on the steering wheel for me, okay? Charlie two, run a name, Joe Lentz. Now certainly in some jurisdictions, there's gonna be a very relaxed attitude towards the existence of firearms inside of the vehicle. There may be officers who really aren't agitated or don't feel like it's an escalation of threat to have someone they consider a very low threat, an otherwise, you know, law-abiding citizen that had a minor traffic violation.
There's some other reason for the contact than one would normally associate with a threat to a police officer. Officers may respond very casually to the existence of the firearm inside of the passenger compartment. That's very true. Most of the time, contact with citizens, it depends on the officer's level of training and experience, but typically things are action-based. So if that violator is not doing anything to agitate the officer, the officer may just give minor direction.
"Place your hands up on the steering wheel. Please keep him in that position." Find other means to continue with the stop, such as being able to distance yourself, getting names verbally, you know, just maintaining control, keeping that subject's hands in a position where they don't have to actually reach around and make furtive movements. Now, the number one thing that I would say in this case is you may find the situation more unnerving than the officer. If the officer is either, through officer safety ignorance, very complacent, or if it is a very experienced officer who's reading your body language, who maybe already ran your tags and knows that you have a concealed carry permit who figures, "You know what? This person was speeding, yes, but they're not a threat to me.
I'm gonna be very casual about it," don't you escalate the situation by acting nervous, by acting with a furtive movement, which is a term of common parlance for quick movements that might be misconstrued as a threat type movement, maybe reaching for the gun. You may be in a hurry to conceal the gun and cover it up, and the officer thinks you're reaching for the gun. Now, here's a situation where you now have caused the escalation. You have created the situation to rise, and now really bad things can start happening. What would you think about talking to the officer about, you know, "Are you sure you don't want me to remove it?
Do you want me to unload it?", those kinds of interactions. Do some people do that sometimes? Yes, they do. Typically what I look for is just listen to what the officer has to say. If they want you to remove the weapon or if they want to remove the weapon, they're gonna let you know.
Absolutely. So remember when you have a firearm that's exposed in your car, whether you knew it was exposed or not, once the officer knows it's there, as always, comply with the officer. Don't agitate the situation. Make sure that your movements are calm, and make sure that you follow those directions.
Share tips, start a discussion or ask other students a question. If you have a question for the instructor, please click here.
Already a member? Sign in
No Responses to “Interactions with Law Enforcement Session 6: Firearms in Vehicles: Off Body Carry”